Especially in January.
Star Trek TOS Re-Watch
- Thread starter Commander Troi
- Start date
Kirk no doubt has seen it, so he's not being entirely sarcastic.
I did some searching and I dug up a conversation we had about the transporter operation in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday", from six and a half years ago. I proposed a basic idea [https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tomorrow-is-yesterday.287633/#post-12005240]:
@Pumpkin Spice, a.k.a. Tenacity, fleshed it out brilliantly [https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tomorrow-is-yesterday.287633/page-2#post-12006276]:
I mean, wow. That's amazing.
The thread had some discussion of the wibbly wobbly, timey wimey issues, and then we got to this [https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tomorrow-is-yesterday.287633/page-5#post-12020350]:
I thought I'd share that we managed to do more with the idea than just "they killed one version." Apparently so did the writers of "Relativity," Nick Sagan, et al.
I sprinkled a few necrolikes into that thread. They're well-deserved.
Maybe it's somehow meant to be a reversal of "The Enemy Within,"
@Pumpkin Spice, a.k.a. Tenacity, fleshed it out brilliantly [https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tomorrow-is-yesterday.287633/page-2#post-12006276]:
Let's try this, The Enemy Within was the 5th episode produced, Tomorrow is Yesterday was the 21st episode produced. In The Enemy Within two separated Kirks were beamed into a single common body.
Is it possible that that procedure is basically what we saw with Christopher and the sergeant?
In the case of Christopher, he was in his aircraft and after a brief glimpse of the Enterprise, there was nothing. Christopher suddenly "remembers" the events of the next day (or so), but he also remembers never being out of his aircraft. The integrated memories of the two Christophers are just as real.
From the perspective of the Air Force, Christopher was in contact with the ground every few seconds.
KIRK: If the Captain feels duty bound to report what he saw, there won't be any evidence to support him.
CHRISTOPHER: That makes me out to be either a liar or a fool.
KIRK: Perhaps.
This dialog from Kirk states that Kirk fully expect Christopher to remember his time on the Enterprise.
With the sergeant, he patrolled a corridor to a point outside the statistical services office, suddenly he "remember" the next several hours. Seeing a light in the office, confronting two men, being in a strange room, being served soup. But he also distinctly remembers that he just walked up the corridor a few seconds before.
No missing time, no erased memories. Both men remember being on the ship, but they both also remember never being out of their "here and now."
Does this work?
Is it possible that that procedure is basically what we saw with Christopher and the sergeant?
In the case of Christopher, he was in his aircraft and after a brief glimpse of the Enterprise, there was nothing. Christopher suddenly "remembers" the events of the next day (or so), but he also remembers never being out of his aircraft. The integrated memories of the two Christophers are just as real.
From the perspective of the Air Force, Christopher was in contact with the ground every few seconds.
KIRK: If the Captain feels duty bound to report what he saw, there won't be any evidence to support him.
CHRISTOPHER: That makes me out to be either a liar or a fool.
KIRK: Perhaps.
This dialog from Kirk states that Kirk fully expect Christopher to remember his time on the Enterprise.
With the sergeant, he patrolled a corridor to a point outside the statistical services office, suddenly he "remember" the next several hours. Seeing a light in the office, confronting two men, being in a strange room, being served soup. But he also distinctly remembers that he just walked up the corridor a few seconds before.
No missing time, no erased memories. Both men remember being on the ship, but they both also remember never being out of their "here and now."
Does this work?
I mean, wow. That's amazing.
The thread had some discussion of the wibbly wobbly, timey wimey issues, and then we got to this [https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tomorrow-is-yesterday.287633/page-5#post-12020350]:
By the way, the reintegration of multiple versions of a person from different timelines into a single version is still a thing in the 29th century, according to VOY "Relativity." So, yay!
It was mentioned at the resolution of the episode as something that would be done both for Braxton and Seven of Nine.
It was mentioned at the resolution of the episode as something that would be done both for Braxton and Seven of Nine.
I thought I'd share that we managed to do more with the idea than just "they killed one version." Apparently so did the writers of "Relativity," Nick Sagan, et al.
I sprinkled a few necrolikes into that thread. They're well-deserved.
"The Enemy Within" is an allegorical episode in which the Transporter can do magic. Kirk's mass is doubled out of nowhere (a feat validated later in "Second Chances" and maybe possible to rationalize), and when the two Kirks are reintegrated, one of their masses disappears, but both of their memories are preserved. That's hard to explain. How does the machine save both minds while getting rid of one body's worth of mass?
So I don't see how "The Enemy Within" can be anything but a fable. Almost as impossible as the physics: how does Starfleet not relieve Kirk of his command, after he got drunk, violently assaulted two crew persons, and shot up the Engine Room with a sidearm? "Nobody's perfect," yes, but Navy captains get relieved for the tiniest missteps, even making a remark somebody didn't like.
But if we accept that the Transporter can turn two minds into one, while ditching half the matter that came with them but not losing any memory molecules, then I guess the same magic can be applied in "Tomorrow is Yesterday."
The way I see it there might be ways to rationalize the end of TIY. But why bother? I can't even tell what DC meant for it to be. Other than "we fixed it". Forget the transporters and Christopher, what happens to the "original" Enterprise? (No SNW jokes, please.)
In a way, it's an interesting look at pre-timey-wimey sci-fi. It was fantastic enough to go back to the 1960's without leaning into the "it never happened because we did such and such" paradoxes. Multiple Kirks and Christophers running around a la Back to the Future 2 are not required. (But now I want it.) Like the shuttles in The Enemy Within maybe a mind meld would have come in handy. Heck Leonard "The Mad Pharmacist" McCoy could even have done in a pinch. Less Doctor Who and more Men in Black.
But at least we got the Star Fleet Technical Manual out of it!
The science might be silly in The Enemy Within but you're absolutely clear on what they meant to be happening. And there are enough things that are impossible or at least undesirable with the transporter that this is hardly a bridge too far.
Have we gotten to All Our Yesterdays and "Spock devolves to be like the Vulcans of his time" yet? I have opinions.
In a way, it's an interesting look at pre-timey-wimey sci-fi. It was fantastic enough to go back to the 1960's without leaning into the "it never happened because we did such and such" paradoxes. Multiple Kirks and Christophers running around a la Back to the Future 2 are not required. (But now I want it.) Like the shuttles in The Enemy Within maybe a mind meld would have come in handy. Heck Leonard "The Mad Pharmacist" McCoy could even have done in a pinch. Less Doctor Who and more Men in Black.
But at least we got the Star Fleet Technical Manual out of it!
The science might be silly in The Enemy Within but you're absolutely clear on what they meant to be happening. And there are enough things that are impossible or at least undesirable with the transporter that this is hardly a bridge too far.
Have we gotten to All Our Yesterdays and "Spock devolves to be like the Vulcans of his time" yet? I have opinions.
Imagine Kirk going up before a board of psychiatric inquiry after these incidents. ("The fact remains, Captain, that half of you did these terrible things. Can we be positive that the two halves have fused together in such a way as to restrain such impulses?")
The transporter was always magical tech. "Mirror, Mirror" is another example. Not only is the landing party beamed into MU uniforms, when they beam back home - into their original uniforms - Uhura has her tricorder slung over her shoulder/tucked in her arm and McCoy has his medikit. Sure, you can say the landing party's consciousnesses were swapped with the MU versions but Spock handed evil Uhura and McCoy their equipment? And waited until the very last second to beam them back? I guess Spock knows Kirk well enough to assume he's gonna do a speech on the way out.
The transporter does what it needs to do that week.
It read the script.
Thanks, that made for very interesting reading
I do wonder though - did Kirk actually retain both sets of memories when he was recombined? Or did his "good" self simply have the missing mojo elements restored to him. The few scenes at the end of The Enemy Within could easily be read to fit in with the latter notion.
I do like the idea of the whacky transporter-manoeuvre in Tomorrow Is Yesterday being a development of what went on in The Enemy Within. The outcome could be similar too, with only one version (the most recent one) of Capt Christopher and the Guard surviving. This explains why the guard chose to deviate from his route and investigate the photography lab - he remembered doing it the first time (before his weird "dream"). Otherwise, with Kirk and Sulu no longer causing a commotion he has no reason to enter the room at all.
Captain Christopher (upon replacing his earlier self) just plays the role he agreed upon with Kirk and flies back to base, retaining all his memories of a fantastic adventure.
The later version overwriting the earlier version makes sense from a moral POV too, because the earlier version already survives in the later one, as a part of their personal history.
The recombination tech in Relativity also leaves room for doubt - perhaps only the most recent version of 7of9 and Braxton keep their memories, with the other temporal duplicates merely being merged with their "temporal aura" or whatever?
I'm pretty sure the official log reported EvilKirk as simply an imposter - they threw the term around enough times in the episode!
Origin of the "intruder" listed as unknown, but they were in orbit of a planet at the time, so.....
There's a short story where some Mad Genius uses the data from the "imposter" incident to split Spock into his human and Vulcan halves.
I swear between things like that and Other New Shows With Spock you'd think by the time of The Motion Picture that Spock's duality would be no big deal.
I swear between things like that and Other New Shows With Spock you'd think by the time of The Motion Picture that Spock's duality would be no big deal.
He wanted to be full Vulcan and live up to his father's expectations.
Regardless of its status in canon, it's a very creative, outside-of-the-box, and unique take on the episode. When I originally threw the idea out there, I was half-joking. But after the later discussion, it became clear that the idea really had a consistency to it, if you accept its premises.Thanks, that made for very interesting reading
That's episode 78. It's gonna be awhile!
Yeah, that's a cool backstory.
I do too.
I'll try to hold them back until the appointed time!That's episode 78. It's gonna be awhile!
Additionally, Christopher goes home to bang his wife until he has a boy. Names him, "Shaun Geoffrey Christopher". Then, he grooms the kid to become an astronaut and pulls strings to get him on the Earth-Saturn Probe Mission.......
Question: Would this have happened in history without Captain Christopher's knowledge from the Enterprise visit? Hmm, sounds similar to same results from Assignment: Earth,
I can get behind this scenario.
It's the story "Ni Var" in the collection Star Trek: New Voyages. Great story.
I like the older Spock who seems to have come to some kind of terms with emotions. I like his warmth. We seem to lose that Spock, though, with TNG: Unification Parts I and II. At least it seems he's back to ground zero, considering his conversation with Data about his human half.
He just seems so much stiffer. But I haven't seen the episode in a while. It was, frankly, a disappointment in terms of episodes.
I have no issues with UNIFICATION at all...unless Worf's singing in part two is cut for syndication.
The best Spock is TOS Spock. The second best Spock is Wrath of Khan Spock. The best performance is Motion Picture Spock.
After that we got variations of Data Spock / Voyage Home Spock. I don't know if Nimoy wasn't as interested anymore, if too much of other people's perception of who Spock was seeped in to the performance, or what. Unification was late stage Spock on a television schedule in an episode that he was doing as a favor in return for a marketing boost for The Undiscovered Country.
After that we got variations of Data Spock / Voyage Home Spock. I don't know if Nimoy wasn't as interested anymore, if too much of other people's perception of who Spock was seeped in to the performance, or what. Unification was late stage Spock on a television schedule in an episode that he was doing as a favor in return for a marketing boost for The Undiscovered Country.
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