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Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x10 - "New Life and New Civilizations"

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It was pretty good up to a certain period in time, then it got worse.
When was continuity ever good? Right off the bat in The Cage you have Pike complaining about having women on the bridge with the exception of Number One, while there are other women on the bridge. Or the multiple contradictory references throughout TOS's first season to what century it is, ranging from twenty-second to twenty-eighth.
 
It was pretty good up to a certain period in time, then it got worse.
I'll have to disagree, continuity was always very malleable in Star Trek.That's by design, of course - Star Trek doesn't need continuity.

Star Trek - or at least, TOS, TNG, and Voyager - is about a ship drifting through a dreamlike universe where anything can happen. What happened last week - or last season, or last show - doesn't need to limit what happens this week. It's a vehicle for any story you want to tell, it works on mythic dream logic rather than verisimilitude, and when done well, it's the best thing on TV.

SNW is obsessed with continuity, however, to the point of making an episode inside an existing episode (A Quality of Mercy). This is pointless and results in a spectacular self-hoisting by their own petard, because when they insist on lodging themselves firmly inside an existing show's legacy, they lay a minefield of entirely self-inflicted traps, and these writers somehow keep triggering them. At this point, they've done it so many times that it's like Sideshow Bob with the rakes.

But I don't think the issue is necessarily that SNW violates continuity - it's that SNW is absolutely fixated on continuity to begin with, and evokes it at any chance it gets. The very nature of the show invites people to criticise the inevitable blunders it makes in that regard.
 
Why is it so difficult to accept that continuity has never been the franchise's strong suit?

It's been a huge strong suit. For a long time aside from minor stuff, they kept alive a strong, coherent tapestry. I would argue that no other entertainment franchise has created so much content while keeping such a strong sense of order and continuity.

People like the Okudas I credit with a strong degree of keeping Trek authentic.
 
It wasn't bad. It wasn't good. It was a middle of the road 5/10. Too dull for a season finale, but not bad enough to hate. At least there wasn't a cliffhanger. TBH, the show could end right here and I'd be fine.

And, really, I think that might be the case for me anyway.

This is very much how I feel, around every point you raised but particularly this. I think I'm done.
 
For a long time aside from minor stuff, they kept alive a strong, coherent tapestry. I would argue that no other entertainment franchise has created so much content while keeping such a strong sense of order and continuity.
Yeah, no.
People like the Okudas I credit with a strong degree of keeping Trek authentic.
The Okudas have admitted there's a lot of inconsistencies, leading to a large degree of conjecture in their Chronology and Encyclopedia editions, which certain fans choose to consider canon even though the Okudas themselves have said otherwise.
 
The Okudas have admitted there's a lot of inconsistencies, leading to a large degree of conjecture in their Chronology and Encyclopedia editions, which certain fans choose to consider canon even though the Okudas themselves have said otherwise.
I think this is part of it but doesn't capture the whole story. I think what lended credence to the was strong connective tissue of production design. Plus you see connections with Unification and TUC as a deliberate connection and the greater verisimilitude between the TOS films and TNG.

The 90s were all about the interconnected world because the shows could do so relatively easily. Enterprise even did so, even though it shouldn't have. The only real outlier in visuals is TOS. And fans use to be able to paper over it.

But, now, you have this idea that Star Trek has always been like that and continuity is inviable. It's not perfectly accurate, but I don't think saying there's no continuity is perfectly accurate either.
 
Well, this was rather underwhelming season finale to me. Mind you, not a complete disaster like “Four-And-A-Half Vulcans”, but still very emblematic for how the entirety of the season felt to me. Looking back it was quite the rollercoaster of quality: Liked or loved “Hegemony, Part II”, “Shuttle to Kenfori”, “Through the Lens of Time”, “The Sehlat Who Ate Its Tail”, “What Is Starfleet?” and “Terrarium”. And was disappointed or dismayed by “Wedding Bell Blues”, “A Space Adventure Hour”, “Four-And-A-Half Vulcans” and now this one. The good and bad almost switched on and off this season.

I quite liked the whole “What if” sequence of Pike and Batel being able to kind of live out their lives together. It was nicely shot and acted and I appreciate the surreal quality they gave it with the recurring door-knocking like in a bad dream, and the falling star (?) that Pike kept seeing. I didn’t need them having a kid, but it helped making their life together seem fulfilled and happy, even if it was just an illusion. What can I say, I’m just a sucker for these kind of almost David Lynch’ian and certainly Kubrick’ian sequences that seem to follow a sort of dream logic.

But other than that the episode was rather baffling to me. Completely unbelievable how Batel would just accept her “fate” to — what exactly? — spent the rest of eternity as a lifeless statue? She seemed waaay to easily convinced that that’s just what her whole life had been leading up to. As someone else said earlier in the thread: “prophecy storylines“ are only interesting when there’s something in the end subverting the expectation of the prophecy. But not here: We just learn what Batel needs to do and she just does it, no problems or twists whatsoever. That moment right after the “What if” sequence ended was really strange in that regard: So apparently these characters just spent their long lives together, and yet Pike almost doesn’t seem like he’s interested in seeing her go. The way that was staged left me scratching my head and asking, “Was this really it?”

The musical montage at the end was neat, though, and I liked how Una was just there for Pike, in case he wanted to talk. That’s what friends are for. And Pike seeing the falling star again over the planet was also a nice touch.

But everything else was just so weird about this episode. Spock for whatever harebrained reason having to mind meld with Kirk, just to spoon-feed us the idea that these two are going to be super best friends. God forbid these two characters can’t just become friends the normal way like regular people; no, telepathy needs to be involved. And the way it happened just casually in the bar made it even weirder. The only saving grace was Ortegas’ bemused look. :lol:

Korby was kind of interesting when they first introduced him earlier in the season, but by this point he kind of got on my nerves, to be honest, so I’m kind of hoping that was the last we saw of him and he’s now lost. That fakeout with him needing to be rescued and then he just casually walks into frame could not have been lamer. And why did all people on this planet seem like uninterested NPCs that couldn’t be phased by anything? And what the hell was that strange ceremony all about where they were gouging out their eyes? This seemed like from a completely different version of the script, where they planned to follow up on it later.

So yeah, I’m disappointed that this is how the season ended, but it’s kind of on par for the rest of it, to be honst. This is obviously still leagues better than all of Discovery and Picard, so I’m not too worried. And I guess at the end of the day, if they manage to still put out absolute highlights like “Terrarium”, I can live with a handful of duds. But I would be lying if I said I’m not disappointed, because the first two seasons started out so strong. Hopefully the writing will improve and be more consistent come season four and five.
 
Kirk was inevitable from the moment in 1967 he said he'd known Pike since the latter was promoted to Fleet Captain.
Even though they had no way of knowing at the time, the lines of Kirk saying "Spock here served with him for several years" and Spock saying "Eleven years, four months, five days" seems like a blatant ad for Strange New Worlds now. It wouldn't even feel out of place if during these lines a banner ad at the bottom of the screen scrolled by saying "Watch Spock's years under Pike on Strange New Worlds at Paramount Plus!"
 
But everything else was just so weird about this episode. Spock for whatever harebrained reason having to mind meld with Kirk, just to spoon-feed us the idea that these two are going to be super best friends. God forbid these two characters can’t just become friends the normal way like regular people; no, telepathy needs to be involved. And the way it happened just casually in the bar made it even weirder. The only saving grace was Ortegas’ bemused look. :lol:
Strangely enough the Shatnerverse novel Collision Course had Kirk and Spock becoming friends in a bar. Even the Kelvinverse seems more natural now, with Kirk and Spock becoming friends naturally mostly offscreen in the in-universe year between the 2009 film and Into Darkness (covered non-canonically by the IDW comics and the 2013 game) to the point that Spock is screaming "KHAAAN" and goes into a rage once Cumberbatch-Khan kills Kirk.
 
Yeah, a lot of this was just plain dumb. Betal never felt she fit in because she was in reverse time as a human that was originally an ancient portal guard? What?
Not reverse time, but a quirk of cause not having to precede effect beyond the boundaries of strict linear time. The temple where she turned into the guardian (or whatever) itself seemed to stand outside time, in some kind of extra-dimensional space. What seems like a paradox doesn't always have to be when time is looked at as fluid.
 
This episode almost felt like they originally thought the series was going to be cancelled and were rushing to add things to it when it wasn't planned that way. That's why there was both a focus on ending the Batel storyline as well as alluding to another 5 year mission.
 
Yeah, yeah. 🤷

The fact we have named people we know of, and Chronologies and Encyclopaedias, kind of makes my point. Some Trek fans don't know good they've got it.
Since you didn't quote the rest of the Wormhole's post I'll do it for you
The Okudas have admitted there's a lot of inconsistencies, leading to a large degree of conjecture in their Chronology and Encyclopedia editions, which certain fans choose to consider canon even though the Okudas themselves have said otherwise.
They made up stuff to make it work.
 
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