Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x05 - "Charades"

[Voodoowoman2]

Honestly, I was expecting a lot of pushback on this episode so I'm pleasantly surprised. I loved it. Laughed a bunch.
Things I loved:
1. Spock's delusional confidence at how well he's managing.
2. The plausible reason the Kerkovians(?) altered his DNA - assuming it was the result of an injury suffered in the crash and using a healthy person to "correct" the injuries.
3. He's angry, annoyed, scared, touched, etc. AND hungry for some reason. Welcome to humanity, my friend.
4. Bacon. Spock shoveling bacon into his gob - because when you fall off the vegetarian wagon, bacon is often the trigger. (Sometimes as a former vegetarian I get a little queasy at the thought of Spock wearing leather, or eating food cooked where meat is also prepared. But bacon is glorious. Also I'm hoping it's lab grown.)
5. That conversation with La'an about human adolescence. Comedy gold. Also the way he looked when he started having sexual thoughts about her.
6. Losing it over Sam Kirk's dirty dishes.
7. That stupid hat.
8. Spock's mommy and how he defends her and comes to understand her better.
9. T'Pring's outfit!
10. Uhura and Ortegas giving Chapel the what for.
11.The disorienting beauty of the alien world in contrast with their pragmatic customer service approach to human intrustion.
12. Spock screaming into a towel.
The emotional impact of events were deep and consequential and not played for comedy despite it being a comedy. That was right.

LAB GROWN MEAT. That stuff is toxic and Pike the epicurian would never use it.

 

[Voodoowoman2]

All of this.
This episode may be my favorite so far, and I did not see that coming at all.

(Though I do agree with someone’s point that Spock and Chapel getting together when he’s not completely broken up with T’Pring is a disservice to all three characters.)

Yeah. It's a set up for heartbreak for sure. The "relationship" happens too soon in the series for happiness. The Sarek family seems to have an addiction to human women. Spock has broken up with T'Pring in his heart. The end scene seems to have happed a few weeks later. His mind is made up obviously. He WANTS to feel this and he wants to feel it with Chapel. He does this as his fully integrated self,, not his adolescent little boy self. Does Spock's human "half" suffer from Peter Pan syndrome? He is a little boy who seems never to grow up.

 

[Voodoowoman2]

I'm quoting myself from another thread here:

Hollywood is, generally speaking, bereft of morals. In that vein, it is completely expected that they would morally corrupt two characters this way, because most of the movers and shakers in Hollywood don't even see it as wrong.

Spock is an honorable guy. (Or at least he used to be.) I very much wish they could have gone down the same road that Herman Wouk took with his character Pug Henry in War and Remembrance, when he was torn between his unfaithful wife and the character of Pamela Tudsbury. When the latter suggested that they just 'shack up' and take what joy they could from their lives, Pug discarded that idea outright, claiming that if he was in love enough with Pamela to do that, then he was in love enough with her to divorce his wife and marry Pamela. Later in the story, that is what happened, and Pug remained physically (if not emotionally) faithful to his estranged wife until it was officially and irredeemably over.

In this case, the characters of Spock and Chapel both would have been better served if, when T'Pring suggested a break, that Spock simply made a clean, permanent break and then gone to Chapel with a clean moral slate, heart, and conscience. Sure, the story is more dramatic this way, but at the expense of our characters' honor, as it were.

Perhaps Spock did this behind the scenes and we will hear about it later. I agree that Spock is not the man for casual flings.

 

[Voodoowoman2]

I was so-so on it at best. It seems like the SNW writers are using all of their goofiest ideas for Spock ("Hey, let's a do a body swap episode!" "Hey, let's have Spock changed into being fully human!" "HIJINKS ENSUE!!!!"), I guess because so much has been done with the character already.

For my money, the Kelvin movies, DSC, and SNW all go to the "Spock loses control of his emotions" well much too often. The power of Spock's character is that he's emotionally withdrawn. The more often you subvert that, the less powerful it becomes each time. If it were up to me, we'd only have Spock lose control once every 25-30 episodes or so, if that. TOS did it about once a season IIRC ("This Side of Paradise," "Amok Time," and "All Our Yesterdays," but I'm probably forgetting other examples). More often than that and it gets old.

So just a 5 out of 10 for me, I'm afraid.

EDIT: Once again though, I absolutely loved Anson Mount's performance as Pike. He's consistently the best part of the show for me.

Spocks emotional withdrawal has gone on for over four decades now and it's a bore. His V'ger experience just taught him that he would have to put up with his human half not accept or integrate it. What gets old is Spock being a slab of granite on the surface. We've been over it and over it. Write the character off and create a new moody, alienated Odo character.

 

[Oso Blanco]

T'Pring's dad is oddly un-Vulcan

As is T'Pring ... she sounds completely un-vulcan to me!

 

[Unique]

Yes, a little upset, yes but DITCHING your relationship for it is childish. T'Pring literally pushes him away. Mature people don't do this. Narcissitic spoiled little girls do this.

If I had a mother like that, had that kind of shock from the man I loved, and couldn’t even cry about any of it, my knee jerk reaction might have been a bit heated and hasty as well.

 

[Mudd]

As is T'Pring ... she sounds completely un-vulcan to me!

They all do, every one, when we get a close-up look.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Chapel needed more to do. This version is largely based on Chapel from Obsession. It would have been nice if they'd had more scenes interacting more as equals in TOS but more than that she needed to interact with McCoy more on research (SNW goes a bit too far the other way making her the lead in research when she's not an officer) and being allowed to be more enquiring generally.

Much the same as Rand, pushing the relationship button too far or too fast can harm a character dynamic. I thought Janeway and Chakotay had chemistry and would have liked them to have done more with that other than one self-enclosed episode but Paris and Torres probably have the most realistic relationship in Trek. Keiko was too absent and too often used as an off-screen antagonist. But once you set a relationship off, then what? I guess we'll find out. They obviously have a game plan. Possibly one involving Sybok.

Well she was only a minor supporting character in TOS. She wasn't written as a main. It was by design.

 

[Doctorossi]

Hollywood is, generally speaking, bereft of morals. In that vein, it is completely expected that they would morally corrupt two characters this way, because most of the movers and shakers in Hollywood don't even see it as wrong.

Or, could it just be that they were writing a 23rd century Vulcan rather than a 20th century Englishman?

 

[Pauln6]

Well she was only a minor supporting character in TOS. She wasn't written as a main. It was by design.

True, but if I'm honest, I preferred the dynamic of early season one where even the supporting characters had their moments to shine.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Runs in the family.

If only generating a personal force field was so simple.

 

[mattman8907]

View attachment 35379

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Runs in the family.

If only generating a personal force field was so simple.

Something I always wondered: who's older George or James?

 

[valkyrie013]

T'pring takes after her father alot, very open, accepting, but also brought up by her mother.. who is a "insert adjective"

I kinda don't like what they've done to spock, in Amok Time, it seemed that what drove T'pring away was that he was away in starfleet, and that he was making a name for himself, and she didn't want to be associated with him anymore, bassically Spock did nothing wrong other than follow his "Dreams". But now its being turned around to being Spocks fault. That he wasn't trusting enough, that he wasn't putting in the effort, that she is bending over backwards to make it work, and pushing him on it..

Now with Christine, adds another layer of not trying. If T'pring completely broke up with him, thats one thing, but there just taking "A Break" a cool down period. So to me Spock is cheating on her. makes Him look bad. I know there's tension with Christine, but .. so what? there's been plenty of Un Requented relationships in TV.. whats 1 more??

Also, with Amok Time.. She could have ended it at any time it seems with SNW version, didn't have to wait till Pon Farr, and the day of the wedding and Khalifi to call it off.. Maybe it was to far along and she would loose face? But that would cost the life of Spock or then Kirk.. She was open to basically murder to get out of the marrige by then? Doesn't seem like that on SNW..

 

[cooleddie74]

Something I always wondered: who's older George or James?

George, Jr. (Sam).

 

[Paul755]

Yes, like the Producers /Writers of EVERY Star Trek series/film since 1966.

not criticizing that they ignore stuff, was just pointing out a fact.

I don't think this was as entertaining as Spock Amock but I do think they've really done a good job modernizing Spock's "Am I human or Vulcan?" However, I also feel like they've made T'Pring a bit too much of a victim of what a crappy boyfriend Spock is. She's really made a huge effort to be accepting and meet Spock halfway (and then again) with Starfleet. The fact that Spock is clearly just not that into her and kind of leaving her hanging repeatedly is awful. Just dump the girl, Spock, as you'll both be happier. You're stringing her along in the classical sense.

I don’t know that he isn’t into her, he’s just very career minded and he doubles down on that as we see in TOS. He just came down with a case of puppy love for the new, hot blonde nurse and ultimately can’t control himself. I’m guessing T’Pring stays faithful to him despite Spock getting down with Christine and when she finds out she becomes her Mother and decides to make Spock pay. She’s clearly worked on being more open to emotions to meet Spock half way so vindictiveness shouldn’t be that far of a reach.

Spock and Christine don’t come off great here.

Nope.

why not?

 

[Mudd]

why not?

Why wouldn't it be "better" if they did a story about Spock growing wings?

Chapel/Spock is an ongoing relationship that the writers and actors have developed, evolved and that the audience has invested in.

Leila is an Easter egg, a callback to a dull one-off character. Who cares?

 

[Tallguy]

T'pring takes after her father alot, very open, accepting, but also brought up by her mother.. who is a "insert adjective"

I kinda don't like what they've done to spock, in Amok Time, it seemed that what drove T'pring away was that he was away in starfleet, and that he was making a name for himself, and she didn't want to be associated with him anymore, bassically Spock did nothing wrong other than follow his "Dreams". But now its being turned around to being Spocks fault. That he wasn't trusting enough, that he wasn't putting in the effort, that she is bending over backwards to make it work, and pushing him on it..

Now with Christine, adds another layer of not trying. If T'pring completely broke up with him, thats one thing, but there just taking "A Break" a cool down period. So to me Spock is cheating on her. makes Him look bad. I know there's tension with Christine, but .. so what? there's been plenty of Un Requented relationships in TV.. whats 1 more??

Also, with Amok Time.. She could have ended it at any time it seems with SNW version, didn't have to wait till Pon Farr, and the day of the wedding and Khalifi to call it off.. Maybe it was to far along and she would loose face? But that would cost the life of Spock or then Kirk.. She was open to basically murder to get out of the marrige by then? Doesn't seem like that on SNW..

Yeah. You have to accept that they've taken the basic crumbs of "Spock was engaged and we know it's not going to work out" as well as "There was a nurse on the Enterprise who had unrequited feelings for Spock" and expanded those stories out of proportion and in ways that aren't going to match up with the original. I mean, I'm loving it. But (DON'T throw that "alternate timeline" crap at me) it's as much a retelling as 09 is. (I just happen to like it better.)

T'Pring in Amok time is like John Hammond in the book Jurassic Park. Ruthless, vicious, entitled. T'Pring in SNW is like Hammond from the moive. Maybe misguided sometimes but otherwise he's Santa Clause with Dinosaurs! How can you not love him? Hijinks!

The characters share a name, a background, and maybe some relationships. But they have nothing to do with each other.

Myself, I'm looking forward to when Spock tells T'Pring "We were on a break!"

It was funny when T'Pring's mom was going on about Spock's handicap. If we go by JJ (and there's probably no reason not to, here) it was exactly that kind of remark that drove Spock to leave Vulcan and join Starfleet to begin with!

Also: (I know, hijinks) Everyone treated this as an awkward comedy of manners when Spock had an actual serious medical condition!

Leila is an Easter egg, a callback to a dull one-off character. Who cares?

She had more screen time than T'Pring.

 

[DEWLine]

Exactly.

These writers have really created a fascinating character in T'Pring.
I hope Sturgeon's estate is raking in the residuals.

Joke or not, I also share that hope. He did the work that the current writing staff is building upon.

 

[Mudd]

Exactly.

Joke or not, I also share that hope. He did the work that the current writing staff is building upon.

Not a joke. Sturgeon was a generally brilliant writer, and he essentially created the Vulcan civilization and their world view as well as a handful of defining characters. He understood culture.

 

[Addy_lane]

I think that I looked at this completely differently than most did. Spock and T'pring's relationship is a Vulcan relationship, not human, so to confine it to human mores seems wrong. I pretty much looked at this as a "break up" rather than a break. I see Spock as no longer being attached to T'pring at the end of the episode. It is clear to both Spock and T'pring that Spock is struggling with his feelings about many things (a very human thing to do), and it's made even worse by the enormity of Vulcan feelings, which he cannot completely suppress. I think that in the end, having him explore his feelings for Chapel is logical. He will never be able to be completely devoted to T'pring with that hanging over him. They are stepping back from finalizing a relationship that began with a bonding as children. They are apart but also bonded.

Now, by the time Amok Time comes around, the Spock/ Chapel thing may have run its course. It may not be completely over, but Spock has managed to control his human side more by then, so it's not so obviously out there to everyone. Then Pon Farr happens though, and Spock is still telepathically bonded to T'pring. Chapel cannot help him here, because of the telepathic bond to T'pring. In every other sense, their relationship was effectively over, save for that bond. They both found solace and had relationships with others, but probably due to family and even possibly political pressures, that bond was never severed.