Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x05 - "Charades"

[AlanC9]

I'm not really sure how I feel about the whole mother-in-law thing. It feels like a sexist trope, but I'll let someone else articulate whether or not it's actually problematic these days.

Think of it as a stealth retcon of the implicit sexism of "Journey to Babel," if it helps. Turns out that Vulcan marriages have a dominant partner based on the personal characteristics of the couple, rather than the gender or species.

That said, Vulcans really are a stupid culture. lol
I know it's a problem with all of Star Trek's cultures, except maybe the Bajorans, but one wonders how they have all these stupid rules while managing their reliance on logic.

I have seen the argument made that arbitrary and non-rational rules are necessary, typically from cultural conservatives. Given "Amok Time," I think we have to accept that Vulcans agree with this argument.

How they reached this conclusion.... well, I'm just going to deploy some handwavium.

 

[AlanC9]

Based on the Khan "supposed to happen 30 years ago" reveal, anything can deviate from TOS cause history has been changed already. Spock can marry Chapel, Tea'Bring can ditch Stonn, M'Benga can remain CMO with Bones not even appearing...

It works. But I don't think they're going to go that route. Do you?

 

[ToddCam]

[...]
That said, Vulcans really are a stupid culture. lol
I know it's a problem with all of Star Trek's cultures, except maybe the Bajorans, but one wonders how they have all these stupid rules while managing their reliance on logic.

One thing I think of that Star Trek as a whole has failed to point out, to my recollection, is that, at least in terms of making decisions, logic relies on what your goal is. If your goal is to maintain a connection to the past ways, then it is logical to practice these "sacred" rites. Everything is subjective. Even the much referenced Vulcan scientific curiosity is predicated on the idea that knowledge is of value. This seems like a no-brainer, but it's a choice that isn't an inherently logical goal. Even survival is only logical if you value life. If your goal is the extinction of life, then you make a different, somewhat opposite set of logical choices.

 

[valden]

Or she regrets dumping Spock and he's aloof because he's still mad at her for dumping him. Plus I'm not sure Spock will dump Chapel for Kalomi. The whole business with pretty blonde woman Leila Kalomi coming around after a failed relationship with Chapel screams to me that Chapel dumps Spock and he's literally on a rebound, even getting together with a woman who physically resembles Chapel.


Captain's log, Stardate 43917.4 The Enterprise has been given the singular honour of hosting the first meeting between the Federation and a mysterious race known as the Legarans. We are in orbit around Vulcan, preparing to welcome aboard Federation Ambassador Sarek and his wife Perrin, who like his first wife, is from Earth.

Unless Vulcan princesses are going to be said to be coming from Earth now, Sarek's first wife was Amanda.

no i think spck will do the dumping. remember the prediction of how this season will end? chapel is likely going to leave the enterprise, it was foreshadowed in episode 1.

chapel is also more into him than he her, also by tos we know spock has grown up a lot and has romantic connections with other women like zarabeth and leia that no offence was more of an ''adult'' kind of romance than what hs has here with chapel and tpring that seem like a teenage thing.

i think spock will just loose interest or will get distracted , that is why by tos he has move on and barley talks to her chapel is the one who is stuck in the past

chapel not been able to let go by tos means she was the one that was likely dumped not the other way around.

Also if he meets Leia like within a year, it will mean he must have been over chapel to some extent.

one thing with the chapel/spock thing feels like it is playing out too much like an experiment, even if i have no clue about tos, i can tell from this episode the relationship is not going to last even without name dropping Korby.

 

[valden]

Or she regrets dumping Spock and he's aloof because he's still mad at her for dumping him. Plus I'm not sure Spock will dump Chapel for Kalomi. The whole business with pretty blonde woman Leila Kalomi coming around after a failed relationship with Chapel screams to me that Chapel dumps Spock and he's literally on a rebound, even getting together with a woman who physically resembles Chapel.


Captain's log, Stardate 43917.4 The Enterprise has been given the singular honour of hosting the first meeting between the Federation and a mysterious race known as the Legarans. We are in orbit around Vulcan, preparing to welcome aboard Federation Ambassador Sarek and his wife Perrin, who like his first wife, is from Earth.

Unless Vulcan princesses are going to be said to be coming from Earth now, Sarek's first wife was Amanda.

na, i dont see it that way. Also Spock is not the kind of guy you dump. girls love him. chapel is obsessed.

I am not saying also that spock will dump chapel for leia either. What we know is that chapel still carries a broken heart by TOS and Spock does not care. there is no way that can happen if she did the dumping. Also with Leia, the feelings seem mutual too.

the reason people are bringing up leia is because tos established he has a real thing for her. I think spock and chapel are the michael and tyler from star trek discovery. if i remember, they got together mid season of season 1 discovery and broke up at the end of season 1. mind you that these are the same writers, so their story board follows a pattern.

i think the emotional stuff will get too much for spock and he will break things off.

 

[firehawk12]

One thing I think of that Star Trek as a whole has failed to point out, to my recollection, is that, at least in terms of making decisions, logic relies on what your goal is. If your goal is to maintain a connection to the past ways, then it is logical to practice these "sacred" rites. Everything is subjective. Even the much referenced Vulcan scientific curiosity is predicated on the idea that knowledge is of value. This seems like a no-brainer, but it's a choice that isn't an inherently logical goal. Even survival is only logical if you value life. If your goal is the extinction of life, then you make a different, somewhat opposite set of logical choices.

It's weird because they're basically portrayed as "high elves" who see themselves as being better than humanity, and I can appreciate how passive aggressive they are at using their own cultural rules to benefit themselves. In a way, they're like any of the other TOS-era aliens where you take one aspect of humanity and just amplify to a ridiculous degree.

The fact that they can be so racist is always amusing to me, along with this strict dogma that makes them probably worse than Klingons and their need to do everything "honorably".

Think of it as a stealth retcon of the implicit sexism of "Journey to Babel," if it helps. Turns out that Vulcan marriages have a dominant partner based on the personal characteristics of the couple, rather than the gender or species.

Oh I forgot all about how Amanda is portrayed in that episode. Yikes. lol

I do know that the mother-in-law trope is well-worn and it seems to span cultures since I've seen it replicated many times. But the shrill, passive-aggressive woman who controls her husband and belittles her children does seem... well, problematic. Or at least it kind of just makes me raise an eyebrow if nothing else. lol

I have seen the argument made that arbitrary and non-rational rules are necessary, typically from cultural conservatives. Given "Amok Time," I think we have to accept that Vulcans agree with this argument.

How they reached this conclusion.... well, I'm just going to deploy some handwavium.

Things like that "fault" thing would make sense if the people were actually rational people. Instead, here at least, it's meant to allow parents to emotionally abuse their children. I don't get why anyone would want to do that. lol

Given how they feel 'matches' are important and the idea of 'purity', it also makes me wonder if there are homophobic Vulcans, assuming parthenogenesis or other forms of artificial reproduction aren't readily available. That totally doesn't seem logical at all, but neither is racism.

 

[firehawk12]

the reason people are bringing up leia is because tos established he has a real thing for her. I think spock and chapel are the michael and tyler from star trek discovery. if i remember, they got together mid season of season 1 discovery and broke up at the end of season 1. mind you that these are the same writers, so their story board follows a pattern.

i think the emotional stuff will get too much for spock and he will break things off.

To be fair, part of that was they basically wanted to get rid of the Klingons.

 

[ToddCam]

Captain's log, Stardate 43917.4 The Enterprise has been given the singular honour of hosting the first meeting between the Federation and a mysterious race known as the Legarans. We are in orbit around Vulcan, preparing to welcome aboard Federation Ambassador Sarek and his wife Perrin, who like his first wife, is from Earth.

Unless Vulcan princesses are going to be said to be coming from Earth now, Sarek's first wife was Amanda.

So Picard's understanding of Sarek's biography. Plenty of room for Picard to not have knowledge of Sarek's divorce if such a thing happened. I don't see a need to bother adhering to dialogue that does not explicitly reject the idea or assuming Picard is being completely indisputably accurate in his wording.

The point is moot given the "out-of-wedlock" thing by Spock (someone specifically referring to his own father's history and his own half-brother), but I feel the TNG line is not particularly strong evidence.

It does make me wonder, though. If Sarek was so traditional as to want Spock in an arranged marriage, what happened to Sarek's own betrothed? Was he never bonded? Or are we to believe the much older Sarek was promised to a human a generation or more down-the-line?

 

[sevenstars]

So, have the Vulcans never detected a giant vortexy rupture of space-time in their own system?

 

[Tiberius Jim]

The badge is mirrored

Gah, that really bothered me too! I really enjoyed this episode but that brought me right the hell out of it for that scene. How did nobody in production notice that?!

 

[Roald]

Gah, that really bothered me too! I really enjoyed this episode but that brought me right the hell out of it for that scene. How did nobody in production notice that?!

Maybe it was intentional..? He may have had to replicate something very quickly, and perhaps the mirrored Delta accentuates that?

 

[Orac Zen]

Some of it didn't appeal to me much but on the whole I liked it. The scene where Spock acknowledges what Amanda has / has had to deal with on Vulcan was gold. The ending was...interesting (in a good way). I'm very interested to see where they go with this.

 

[Precious Tritium]

Spock Amok is not an episode I particularly enjoy. I can see what they were going for, but the execution always leaves me cold. This is basically that again but actually done well, for me anyway. Hoping they keep the tradition going of the 5th episode of every season being some Spock/T’Pring hijinks.

Feel like all I ever do after these episodes drop is praise Ethan Peck, but he really is just so good. Him and Jess Bush are electric together. Couple that with a lot of fun interplay between the crew and Anson Mount getting to flex his comedy chops? Baby, you got a stew going.

 

[Voodoowoman2]

"A shuttle accident leads to Spock’s Vulcan DNA being removed by aliens, making him fully human and completely unprepared to face T’Pring’s family during an important ceremonial dinner." - TrekMovie.com

Well, Kirk got separated into two entities, light and dark so this precedent is preserved here. Spoiler alert.
I think we can now safely conclude that this takes place in another multiverse of Star Trek which I'm perfectly fine with.
1. I always knew that Spock's suppressed humanity was a little boy.
2. I presumed Spock and T'Pring would "pause' their relationship.
3. I never expected them to take Spock and Chapel this far. This is NOT the TOS timeline UNLESS another anomaly happens and his memories of it are erased, which could happen. Her memories are NOT erased. Are they headed for a tragic end?
4. Kirkhovians's? Kirk and Chekov? Huh?
5. Spock and Chapel admit their feelings, and act on them. Wow! Never expected that.
6. Episode five, I guess will always be the hijinks episode.
7. I firmly believe that Ethan Peck refused to play the morose, immature, little boy, "I can't handle being half human" Spock of Nimoy. There is only so much torment about Spock fans can take and he never truly improved much, remarking to Data how he envied him. The actors on this series are being heard. Jess Bush refused to play the submissive, ever pining Christine as well. Kudos to both of them!
8. Chapel and Uhura and Ortegas deserve commendations for their first contact.
9. T'Pril is a classic devouring mother. She has already devoured her husband and after she finished off T'Pring she's going after Spock. Hip Hip HOORAY for Spock stepping into full manhood and refusing to fear the Medusa.

 

[1987SpaceGuy]

what an awesome cast and (updated) set of characters.
Fun episode and IMO much better than the S1 body/mindswap hijinks.

the "color" named "remediating" aliens were a bit campy, but the overall look and visuals, including the use of the Volume-thing was great.

plenty of awesome and fun moments.

• Spock/Mam conversation regarding the mind meld
  
• obviously Spock/Chapel (payoff in this reality)
  
• Chapel's Vulcan interview Part 2
  
• the many faces and "duh's and making things up on the spot" of Pike, Amanda and Co
  
• M'Benga, Uhura, Ortegas nods and pleas to Chapel to well "make it simple"
  
• the SNW stellar ladies & Spock - drinks & jokes and subsequent "you talk/mimic" like this.
  
• Spock and Laan lol
  
• Spock and Kirk
• pour one out for (the potential) Vulcan father in law of Spock - (He likes him and potentially humans)

I'm not usually a shipper, but I really hope the SNW writers find a way to make Spock/Chapel work regardless of canon.

 

[StarMan]

I'm not usually a shipper, but I really hope the SNW writers find a way to make Spock/Chapel work regardless of canon.

I just hope the writers go with their instincts for what works in the here and now. I know it might tickle others, but the last thing I feel like doing after watching is scrutinizing how this supposedly fits in with the established yadda yadda...

 

[KennyB]

Don’t care. I really liked it. Jess, Ethan, and the whole cast are just incredible.

 

[SolarisOne]

I just hope the writers go with their instincts for what works in the here and now. I know it might tickle others, but the last thing I feel like doing after watching is scrutinizing how this supposedly fits in with the established yadda yadda...

I mean, they've already explicitly given themselves an out for making changes (which I'm all for, since I have no particular attachment to TOS).

 

[thribs]

So I assume they will be selling standard regulation beanies now?

 

[Voodoowoman2]

T'Pring's dad is oddly un-Vulcan

Perhaps not. Perhaps he's just not of the Puritanical sect his wife inhabits. We've seen perhaps a dozen Vulcans up close. How do we know?