Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x02 - "Ad Astra Per Aspera"

[Charles Phipps]

Weirdly, no one has ever touched on the fact the Vulcan Paradox. I think INTO DARKNESS may be the only one that even hinted at. Which is that Spock is a superior physical, mental, and frigging PSYCHIC being but is happy to serve under James T. Kirk/Pike. Because it turns out superior abilities do NOT translate to superior ambition or callousness.

We never got the conversation between Khan and Spock we needed.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Then please tell me what exactly they prove in the episode. That he was a sentient being? No one really doubt it. Only Maddox, and he was virtually the only one in the Galaxy, and really, it wasn't even the point in the hearing. That he has certain rights as Federation Citizen? It was already decided by a panel of expert for his admission at the Academy.

This is what happened:

• The Jag says that Data is a property of Federation because Acts of Cumberland apply here
• Then she say that Acts of Cumberland don't apply here, and she doesn't explain why

No new facts came up during the hearing, absolutely nothing was proven. No one disputed that Data was artificial and intelligent, and the Acts apply to Artificial Intelligences. So what changed Jag's mind?

I don't give a flying feck what they proved I really don't. Also I can't prove whether or not the judge was right about the Acts of Cumberland because they are made up.

If whether an episode of Star Trek is good or bad based on an expert breakdown then they are all shite. I'm watching Star Trek:The Next Generation not Law &Order:The Next Generation. The episode entertained me as it did most others and that's what makes it good.

 

[Citiprime]

My interpretation of it was that Maddox asserted that Starfleet erred when they recognized Data’s autonomy to join Starfleet, and that Data was the property of Starfleet to use in the same way they would use the Enterprise’s computer, because they had claim to him through salvage rights (since they found him and Starfleet supports Maddox’s order and never tries to pull it back) and the Acts of Cumberland would be the foundation for dismissing an artificial intelligence as deserving the same rights as humans.

Picard basically guilts Phillipa into changing her mind by both undermining Maddox’s bigotry toward Data’s personhood and putting the implications of what Data’s mass production would mean for creating a slave race. Picard scared her by showing that to agree with Maddox would be signing off on something that she wasn’t prepared to have her name associated with, since Picard didn’t understand the full import until Guinan lays it out. That’s why Picard taunts her with; “You said you wanted to make law. Well make it a good one.”

 

[Quantum21]

A flawless episode. The pinnacle of the franchise. My heart was just pumping after this. Easily better than anything in Picard season 3 by several light years + a few miles on a Segue.

Trek getting this right after decades.

10/10

Go get an expensive outfit, get drunk and collect your Emmy AAPA.

 

[bookworm8571]

In this particular universe, augmentation created a race of evil super strong, brilliant, evil psychopaths who caused a world war that killed millions of people. Genetic engineering for intelligence or strength or immunity risked wiping out genetic diversity, incliuding genes that people might find in retrospect were needed. The gene for sickle cell protects against malaria when the person is heterozygous but is crippling and potentially fatal when it’s homozygous. There’s some argument that genes for schizophrenia or other mental illness might be linked to high intelligence. Removing genes for disease or introducing them could have unforeseen consequences.

I could also see the argument that Una’s rise through Starfleet was directly related to her augmentations and were unfair to others who did not have those advantages and were denied admission. What kid did not get Robert April’s sponsorship to the Academy because Una did? There are probably some legitimate reasons for this law and Robert April’s defense of it. Una had no choice in the augmentations she was given. Her parents broke the law, arguably risking her life since those augmentations certainly could have gone wrong, and further risked her life by letting her suffer and risk death by not immediately getting her medical care when she broke her leg. They did this because they feared being charged over what they had done. What they did to their child could certainly have been classified as child abuse or neglect.

Una’s own main offense was lying to Starfleet. What if Una had chosen to be augmented as an adult and then entered Starfleet? We like Una and take her side. I certainly do. But April and the others have their reasons and the plea deal offered to Una was not unreasonable. Charging her with sedition and threatening her with 20 years in prison was spiteful, however.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Whiny Bullshit.

Asylum?

#### off.

You get asylum by asking for it, not by retroactively qualifying that you deserved it a year ago, and then laying out a puzzle where your legal counsel figures out what you've up to for the last 6 months.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

A flawless episode. The pinnacle of the franchise. My heart was just pumping after this. Easily better than anything in Picard season 3 by several light years + a few miles on a Segue.

Trek getting this right after decades.

10/10

Go get an expensive outfit, get drunk and collect your Emmy AAPA.

Personally I thought it could have been improved by Una being rescued from the courthouse by a resurrected Enterprise D slaloming through the San Francisco skyline

 

[Charles Phipps]

They did this because they feared being charged over what they had done. What they did to their child could certainly have been classified as child abuse or neglect.

Basically in the same context that raising a child as Jewish or Native American would be viewed by racist governments. The very act of being a Illyrian (which is notably a culture of gene modifiers) is viewed as an offense agaisnt the Federation. The Federation hates Augments in general but in specific, it turns out they've made a persecuted Anti-Semitic analog out of an entire species.

Una’s own main offense was lying to Starfleet. What if Una had chosen to be augmented as an adult and then entered Starfleet? We like Una and take her side. I certainly do. But April and the others have their reasons and the plea deal offered to Una was not unreasonable. Charging her with sedition and threatening her with 20 years in prison was spiteful, however.

The idea of making an example out of someone with the law is so horrifying it undermines all of Roddenberry's future.

 

[Citiprime]

Right, not admitting someone to an organization and sending them to 20 years in jail are very different things

Batel mentions 20 years when they amend the charges and tack on sedition counts. That kind of sentence makes sense for someone found guilty of sedition (e.g., some of the January 6 rioters have gotten 10+ years for seditious acts).

However, the charge of sedition makes absolutely no sense in the episode, and nothing the prosecution presents, even when shown in the most favorable light for the state, supports it since there’s nothing shown to even suggest that Una was fostering rebellion against the authority of the Federation. She was serving under their authority.

 

[Quantum21]

Unlike Measure of a Man, this ruling does not "make new law", it does not change the face of the Federation for a whole category of beings. It retains the status quo(because maddeningly it is Canon), however it does suggest this is better solved situationally rather than with a blanket law based on a knee jerk from old Earth.

In this particular universe, augmentation created a race of evil super strong, brilliant, evil psychopaths who caused a world war that killed millions of people. Genetic engineering for intelligence or strength or immunity risked wiping out genetic diversity, incliuding genes that people might find in retrospect were needed. The gene for sickle cell protects against malaria when the person is heterozygous but is crippling and potentially fatal when it’s homozygous. There’s some argument that genes for schizophrenia or other mental illness might be linked to high intelligence. Removing genes for disease or introducing them could have unforeseen consequences.

I could also see the argument that Una’s rise through Starfleet was directly related to her augmentations and were unfair to others who did not have those advantages and were denied admission. What kid did not get Robert April’s sponsorship to the Academy because Una did? There are probably some legitimate reasons for this law and Robert April’s defense of it. Una had no choice in the augmentations she was given. Her parents broke the law, arguably risking her life since those augmentations certainly could have gone wrong, and further risked her life by letting her suffer and risk death by not immediately getting her medical care when she broke her leg. They did this because they feared being charged over what they had done. What they did to their child could certainly have been classified as child abuse or neglect.

Una’s own main offense was lying to Starfleet. What if Una had chosen to be augmented as an adult and then entered Starfleet? We like Una and take her side. I certainly do. But April and the others have their reasons and the plea deal offered to Una was not unreasonable. Charging her with sedition and threatening her with 20 years in prison was spiteful, however.

 

[Charles Phipps]

You get asylum by asking for it, not by retroactively qualifying that you deserved it a year ago, and then laying out a puzzle where your legal counsel figures out what you've up to for the last 6 months.

To be fair, it's actually not legally unsound.

Here's the A, B, C.

1. A starship captain can grant asylum unilaterally.
2. You just have to request it to the captain directly.
3. The revelation Pike knew ahead of time means that he could, in fact, grant asylum to Una.
4. Pike did grant asylum by accepting her on his ship.
5. This eliminates like 90% of the charges against Una.
6. They decided not to pursue the lying on her application charge because it was a minor offense to sedition.

Batel mentions 20 years when they amend the charges and tack on sedition counts. That kind of sentence makes sense for someone found guilty of sedition (e.g, some of the January 6 rioters have gotten 10+ years for seditious acts).

However, the charge of sedition makes absolutely no sense in the episode, and nothing the prosecution presents, even when shown in the most favorable light for the state, supports it since there’s nothing shown to even suggest that Una was fostering rebellion against the authority of the Federation. She was serving under their authority.

I mean, yes, it's because it's showing systemic racism. She's getting charged with sedition because she's Augmented.

 

[bookworm8571]

Whiny Bullshit.

Asylum?

#### off.

You get asylum by asking for it, not by retroactively qualifying that you deserved it a year ago, and then laying out a puzzle where your legal counsel figures out what you've up to for the last 6 months.

They all wanted a legal out, which the lawyer gave them. No one actually thought she had asked for asylum. I admired it mainly as an example of clever lawyering. I covered courts for years as a reporter and one of my favorite things was reading legal briefs and seeing the arguments the lawyers made and whether the judges would rule in their favor. This was a very bright, tricky lawyer in this episode.

 

[Citiprime]

I believe at least in the United States, just for this reason, requests for asylum must be explicit (i.e., you have to say or formally write “I request asylum” instead of it being inferred) and also promptly done in order to be valid, since you can’t later assert an asylum claim to negate other issues.

 

[Quantum21]

Whiny Bullshit.

Asylum?

#### off.

You get asylum by asking for it, not by retroactively qualifying that you deserved it a year ago, and then laying out a puzzle where your legal counsel figures out what you've up to for the last 6 months.

Tone deaf much? Ridiculous.

Mitigating circumstances and all that. Her job is figuring out if even obscure laws fit the situation. Una apparently didn't know. Pike didn't. She's the expert.

Do you like the TOS episode "Managerie"? Go watch it.

 

[bookworm8571]

Basically in the same context that raising a child as Jewish or Native American would be viewed by racist governments. The very act of being a Illyrian (which is notably a culture of gene modifiers) is viewed as an offense agaisnt the Federation. The Federation hates Augments in general but in specific, it turns out they've made a persecuted Anti-Semitic analog out of an entire species.



The idea of making an example out of someone with the law is so horrifying it undermines all of Roddenberry's future.

Una’s parents lived in a colony that was admitted to the Federation with the agreement it would cease genetic modification. Her parents didn’t agree. They could have gone elsewhere. Instead, they broke the law. The better analogy would be Mormons who believe in polygamy and kept practicing it even though their state was admitted to the U.S. under the condition they ban polygamy. Carried to the extreme, like underage marriage, polygamy is child abuse. Una’s parents also demonstrably abused her, even though she does not see it that way.

The state makes an example of people now every single day and Roddenberry’s utopia had its sordid underbelly from the beginning. The Federation could not exist as it does without Section 31 because people are people, even 259 years from now.

 

[Quantum21]

Una’s parents lived in a colony that was admitted to the Federation with the agreement it would cease genetic modification. Her parents didn’t agree. They could have gone elsewhere. Instead, they broke the law. The better analogy would be Mormons who believe in polygamy and kept practicing it even though their state was admitted to the U.S. under the condition they ban polygamy. Carried to the extreme, like underage marriage, polygamy is child abuse. Una’s parents also demonstrably abused her, even though she does not see it that way.

The state makes an example of people now every single day and Roddenberry’s utopia had its sordid underbelly from the beginning. The Federation could not exist as it does without Section 31 because people are people, even 259 years from now.

Again the question is is the law correct? It wasn't within the scope of this episode to fix this problem. It does make the Federation look bad as do many other episodes going back to TOS.

Is the UFP too big? Is it out of touch? Does it react too slowly?

The law based on something in the early pre-war Earth would seem out of date, not relevant to new technologies, and clearly leads to misery. Other planets have superior intellect and biologies that did not inspire supermen.

Starfleet, UFP(writers!) ...repeal this outdated law in the next 25th century show!

 

[Citiprime]

The law based on something in the early pre-war Earth would seem out of date, not relevant to new technologies, and clearly leads to misery. Other planets have superior intellect and biologies that did not inspire supermen.

Is it just based on Earth’s history?

There’s also the Klingons’ attempt to augment their genome, which ended in disaster, and before that Archer’s experience with the Soong augments that might have also contributed to the Federation’s ban.

Also, it didn’t hit me during the episode, but the Prime Directive being referenced kinda fits. The specific language of the Prime Directive speaks to the “natural” evolution and development of a society. Part of Batel’s argument in support of the ban during her opening statement was the idea that genetic modification violates natural evolution.

So if the Federation and Starfleet have the Prime Directive as their highest concern, then the ban would fit as a progression of the same notion of preserving “natural” development.

 

[777]

I see the usual youtube crowd are starting to put out videos about how "woke" and "downhill" trek is from this episode. Sighhh

 

[Quantum21]

I see the usual youtube crowd are starting to put out videos about how "woke" and "downhill" trek is from this episode. Sighhh

All the more reason to love it. Let the weak and frightened complain.

 

[Quantum21]

Is it just based on Earth’s history?

There’s also the Klingons’ attempt to augment their genome, which ended in disaster, and before that Archer’s experience with the Soong augments that might have also contributed to the Federation’s ban.

Also, it didn’t hit me during the episode, but the Prime Directive being referenced kinda fits. The specific language of the Prime Directive speaks to the “natural” evolution and development of a society. Part of Batel’s argument in support of the ban during her opening statement was the idea that genetic modification violates natural evolution.

So if the Federation and Starfleet have the Prime Directive as their highest concern, then the ban would fit as a progression of the same notion of preserving “natural” development.

Yes, a direct reference to complaints against modern analogies of LGBTQ being "unnatural". A powerful allegory.

Yes, by definition genetic tinkering isn't "natural" but it takes evolution out of the hands of chance and makes it work for beings on their terms. Evolution is no longer natural on 21st century Earth, why should we think it would be in the 23rd??

Intelligent beings, through evolution now use this gift bestowed by nature. We have a right to use it in a considered and regulated fashion.