That might be an issue. But the coolness of M'Benga suggesting it to Spock in that context makes it all worthwhile in my mind. Using the instrument to help control his emotions was a dang good suggestion! It alters how I'll view TOS scenes going forward in a good way.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x01 - "The Broken Circle"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Better living through chemistry.
As has been pointed out, being a scientist, a doctor or a nurse doesn't mean you can't have combat training. You can and be good at it.
Where was it established by SNW or TOS that Chapel and M'Benga don't know how to fight? La'An and even Spock would have been the obvious choices. Why not go with the unexpected?
Star Trek is full of Magical Stuff, as you said. Why draw the line at a performance enhancing drug?
Yes, it was in a good way. Like Shepard Book in Firefly. "Wasn't always a Shepard. "
Right now it smacks of professional box checking. You're a doctor? You must not be good in a fight. Or RPG classes.
True, and her skill set was paper thin in TOS and we don't know exactly what this serum is yet. When they first introduced Chapel, one of her specialisms was genetics, which i thought was an odd pivot at the time as it was never canonically touched upon before (medical archaeology, ancient technology, cybernetics, biophysics, psychology, general medicine, even xenobiology seemed more likely). So yeah, I think that was possibly laying the groundwork for a backstory retcon. Looks like it will be interesting.
Yeah, I think this is actually one of the smartest and best things the show is doing. Adding richness to TOS. Doing right by the character of Spock.
I especially like the idea of developing a really strong bond between the doomed Pike in this series, as a young Spock, separated from his semi-estranged half-sister (and soon to be forced into contact with his criminal black sheep half-brother, struggles with his dual nature. I do suspect he'll be hurt deeply when, whichever way it happens, he's forced to stay with T'Pring.
And Spock settles into the slightly more reserved(?) version we see in Nimoy, as an older Spock, who has learned so much from Pike, becomes the first officer of the Enterprise and develops a truly legendary partnership(?) with Kirk. But Spock never really came to terms with the dual nature --- witness "Amok Time" --- he merely suppressed it. So, when the five-year mission ends, he goes to do his koh li nar or whatever and becomes the Spock in TMP.
As Spock reaches maturity in the Movie Era, and dies (for friendship) and is resurrected (by the power of friendship), he becomes the legendary peacemaker --- Ambassador Spock. He becomes the visionary/peaceful revolutionary working for reunification (which, from Discovery, we know occurs) and dying to save Romulus, home to the Federation's oldest foe --- now, witness "Balance of Terror" and "A Quality of Mercy" with new eyes.
Anyway, I'm very excited and pleased to see that Star Trek's most enduring hero character has used those decades of storytelling to become a more interesting character, appealing to literally several generations of fans.
I also just rewatched season one's "The Serene Squall" and I must say, it really makes a nice double feature --- a lot that's said in that episode adds weight to "The Broken Circle."
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Hello voodoowoman, nice to see you again, I did already mentioned this in season 1 , i think episode 7? that the way they are writing chapel is going to get more controversial and annoy some fans, i think you told me i was wrong but now we may be agreeing on something.
i will say though, many folks on trekmovie just said she should have been a new character. yes, it is also the strong female character trope that will end up be not logical anymore to the world, its like Rey all over again from star wars.
Hello voodoowoman, nice to see you again, I did already mentioned this in season 1 , i think episode 7? that the way they are writing chapel is going to get more controversial and annoy some fans in the long run, if this is still meant to be a young version of majel barrett's incarnation. i think you told me i was wrong but now we may be agreeing on something.
yes, it is also the strong female character trope that will end up be not logical anymore to the world, its like Rey all over again from star wars.
I'm guessing they just wanted an episode where Babs Olusanmokun (M'Benga's actor) can showcase his real life martial arts skills (he's a black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu I read). That's probably why the scene feels so forced and out of place.
Plus the camera work and choreography was all over the place, I'm sure Babs is a killer fighter in real life but in a filmed work it's all about the presentation. Basically, I don't think Jet Li or Jackie Chan are going to lose any sleep over this episode.
It was kind of reminisce of the last episode of star trek discovery, such sweet sorrow the final fight with emperor Georgiou and Leland, however that made sense was fitted with the characters. overall, this episode did give discovery vibes.
i wonder if the studio boss told the creators they need to make season 2 more actionish. we shall see.
Exactly. It's an open canvas.
I have it on good authority that both M'Benga and Chapel are well established, three dimensional, characters with solid backstories. Clearly, SNW has made a horrible error in this process. I believe future DVD releases will be edited accordingly.
With Deep Fakes of course.
Ah that's where I know her from
He was quite interested in adversarial engagement strategies or whatever Picard called it
It's funny - I dislike M'Benga's voice a lot, but am fine with Pelia's
Yeah, it's like Picard having a pitbull just because PST likes them. I generally don't like fight scenes in the last 15 or so years, all with so much motion blur, darkness, shaking, and insanely fast cuts, that you don't even see what's happening. The last good fight scenes were in Matrix 2I'm guessing they just wanted an episode where Babs Olusanmokun (M'Benga's actor) can showcase his real life martial arts skills (he's a black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu I read). That's probably why the scene feels so forced and out of place.
Plus the camera work and choreography was all over the place, I'm sure Babs is a killer fighter in real life but in a filmed work it's all about the presentation. Basically, I don't think Jet Li or Jackie Chan are going to lose any sleep over this episode.
You could see who hits whom where how! It's the Asterix potion!
I think it's fine for them to know how to fight a bit, although Chapel has previously exhibited no formal combat training. She was a researcher not given over to physical pursuits. It's more a case that they were fighting Klingons, or more accurately, many Klingons at once. That's more exhibiting Batman level of prowess, which seems a bit much. Of course it may turn out that the serum activates physiological programming in addition to increased speed and strength which would make much more sense.
Obviously, you can do more with characters but the original poster was just asking if it was playing too much into the trope that every character has to be a bad ass in a fight or is that a bit lazy?
And sadly, yes, I have played Dungeons and Dragons for 40+ years and I don't doubt that this colours my reaction to this kind of character pivot. It's not much fun playing a character with a useful niche and an interesting back story built out of years of gaming when a new player comes along, built from scratch up to your level, min-maxed for maximum benefits, who can do everything you can do but better and a whole bunch of other stuff too.
I am loving the characterisation in the show and the way they are weaving the characters has been so cleverly done so far. Peck and Bush are absolute gems and the time spent on the supporting cast is exactly what I would have hoped to see after watching the first half of season one in TOS. Even the way Bush's hair is morphing into Chapel's asymmetrical style is a lovely touch. I just hope they don't squander too much of the goodwill they deserve by overwriting the characters too broadly. Fictional characters are defined by what they can and can't do in addition to how they react to events. If you start to blur that too much, you might just end up with a brown mess.
Would I prefer to see terrified Chapel using her wits to avoid getting eaten by a Gorn or bad ass Chapel tooling up with two bat'leth to take on a hoard of Gorn? Both would be fun but one is Chapel and the other is River Tam.
No. She says, "We both served in the Klingon War. Doc here just likes to read up on weapons systems, is all."
I'm watching the scene right now.
I don't find it lazy. I find the reaction a bit overly negative.
But, it's funny, I don't even like the episode. But, it's not because of the fight scene.
Like I said, I've worked with psychiatrists trained in self-defense. I've worked with Army nurses and combat medics who wouldn't hesitate to put someone down if needed, all women. I've heard stories of combat medics in Vietnam carrying shotguns.
Maybe anecdotal but seriously bugs me how being X profession means you can't fight. I'm trained to fight too; of you met me in person you would not know it. Just a quiet, goofy, mental health professional.
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Indeed. I may seem quiet and unassuming on the outside if we get into a fight, but I guarantee you that, on the inside, I'm also bleeding internally.
The vast majority of the reviews are positive. Your confirmation bias is showing.
Yes, many fictional characters exhibit skills they have never been shown to have previously. It's how character building works.(Also needs of the plot) Being a researcher doesn't mean she can't have a background in combat. She might just prefer not to "access" that part of life for various reasons. There seems to be some trauma involved for her and M'Benga associated with that phase of their lives.
Come on, you're the one always wanting to transform Rand, a clerical worker, into a badass part time bodyguard. You bummed that Chapel got there first?
I'm not expert (far from it), but to me Chapel was just brawling not showing a lot of technique.
About that illusion the Talosians gave Pike...
Keep in mind that not all of the illusions were of things he wanted. They were studying him. Pike said he could be a trader, but it was Boyce who mentioned trading in Orion women. Pike may not have meant that at all, but instead of just going into more detail on his thoughts, Pike simply said it was only one of many options he could do if he left Starfleet.
And even if it was an accurate account of a fantasy, it doesn't matter. People are allowed to have fantasies.