Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x08 - "The Elysian Kingdom"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I've not idea how atheism could be called a religion. I don't believe in gods for the same reason I don't believe in ghosts or goblins.
Can you provide me with conclusive, objective proof that there is nothing beyond what we perceive as physical, material reality?
Here's an easier question, because it doesn't involve proving a negative hypothesis: can you show me conclusive, objective proof that what we perceive as physical, material reality is real? That aren't all either subroutines in a massive simulation, or characters in a massive work of fiction, or otherwise figments of some other being's imagination?
Here's an easier question, because it doesn't involve proving a negative hypothesis: can you show me conclusive, objective proof that what we perceive as physical, material reality is real? That aren't all either subroutines in a massive simulation, or characters in a massive work of fiction, or otherwise figments of some other being's imagination?
And I don't buy into atheism for the same reason I don't believe in literal six-day creationism: the science supports neither.
None of this matters.
Absence of evidence is a completely valid reason for not believing a thing, in and of itself. No additional rationalizations required.
Yeah, not sure how that shows atheism is a religion.
I consider it one. You don't. It's like determining whether "Die Hard" is a Christmas movie: a matter of opinion.
And maybe we should... I don't know, talk about "The Elysian Kingdom"? I'm sure we can have a lively discussion about religion somewhere else.
Not an instruction, just a suggestion.
Let’s lose the religion discussion now, OK?
I see, so it's bigoted to speak against bigotry itself - ok then. A common but absurd argument. The bigotry and calls for violence, various atrocious and immoral conduct are always baked in to the creation myths and texts themselves, despite followers' twisting into knots trying to show otherwise. There are no "atheistic systems of thought"; the statement is meaningless. You need to re-evaluate your own thoughts and look up some definitions.
I brought it up because it's quite central to this star trek episode! The nurse herself saying, "you're describing god" or words to that effect. Therefore why is this topic off bounds? If it goes completely off the rails, that's understandable, but it's not. Or let me guess, your judgement is not to be questioned? Some irony there, I guess...
Religion is not inherently bigoted, and there are plenty of systems of thought that are officially atheistic, such as Soviet Communism.
In the real world, religion is not inherently emancipatory or oppressive. It's just a matter of what you do with it. Ask the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Of course it is both oppressive and authoritarian, obviously. In fact supremely so since it talks about supreme supernatural authority. One must believe and act in accordance with nutty, random millennia-old, generally middle eastern moral code. Yeah, no thanks. We should be glad this foolishness isn't real and it must be spoken against, not justified and legitimized as you are trying to do.
Furthermore, the believer is to be happy to submit to this idiotic BS and not question it either, and continuously think and talk about it as well. You're not to 'test the lord' either, or use your own intellectual power of human reason. They don't want you thinking reasonably about life, the universe, because they know what will happen. Instead fill your life with worship and godly thoughts, at all times. If you have non-godly, evil thoughts, suppress them.
If you don't see that as oppression, I don't know what to say. Any authoritarian regime could only hope to have this sort of ability. So they do attempt the same thing: they similarly don't want you thinking about or protesting their invented illegitimate power. Just think only in their way, accept it, and you won't be harmed. You'll have a prosperous life in fact.
We don't need destructive god-bs in the world any more, nor it being legitimized in entertainment such as Star trek. Popular culture needs to speak against it in fact, to bring it down - just as we do with lesser forms of oppression such as the regimes, aspirational or otherwise, of trump and putin.
Cool story.
There are religious systems that do not contextualize God as an authority to be served. There are religions without God or gods. Your understanding of the myriad forms religions may take is deeply inadequate.
That is a good description of right-wing Evangelical Protestantism. That is not the only form of religion in the world. Many religious systems reject the authoritarian thinking you have just described.
I do see that as oppression. But I also know that many other religious systems do not function that way, because I know about more religions than Jerry Falwell's.
1) Star Trek is not here to reflect your ignorance and bigotry. It is not here to uplift your particular in-group or insult your preferred out-group.
2) I still can't figure out how a mostly fluffy story about characters transposed into a semi-medieval setting as foreground for a story about a father learning to let go of his need to control his daughter, triggered this little mental spiral in you.
Have fun storming the castle.
It's almost like he typed a testament.
I clearly did. Sigh. I'm gonna bail for a couple of hours.
They're all the same for the most part, if they can be called a religion. They have imaginary comic book gods that want you to do stuff. If there are some other minor ones whose gods are completely hands off...who cares. I'm talking about the majority, and hence 'generally' above. But that's one big function of the god disease: get people to behave better. It doesn't work and I'm not interested in their ancient warped moral concepts anyway.
My only out-group (whatever that is) are the delusional simpletons who think ancient middle eastern creation myths are a good place to get their morality or explanations of the universe from, or their ideas of how to treat others who aren't like their intolerant selves. That's not some minor segment in the US, or the world, as you try to pretend - presumably disingenuously. Nice try tho.
I explained why it's irritating in Star trek my first post, should you care to re-read it: it's underhanded and obvious. The writer is likely a god-delusionist trying to deceptively get their idiotic beliefs in thru the back door. It's science fiction as I've said, it doesn't belong here. The whole episode is allegorically saying: you know all that "we don't die, you'll see you family again in the afterlife", all that god stuff humans made up? It's true!
If you can't see that's what they're doing in the episode, re-watch it. If it was done as humor or something else that would be fine but the mode of the allegory is clear.
