Vulcans are self-described as being even more savage at the worst moments of their history than Earth humans. We should never be surprised that even in the 23rd and 24th centuries they're still more than capable of being duplicitous and nasty.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x05 - "Spock Amok"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
So what exactly happens to T'Pring's "patients" during logic "rehabilitation"? I'm guessing nonconsensual mind melds where the patient is screaming while T'Pring forces what she perceives to be Vulcan logic into their brains. After repeated such melds, the patient is then a robotic, logical Vulcan with a blank look on their face. Heck, maybe Stonn is a former "criminal" who T'Pring mind***** into becoming her broken, subservient bedroom toy. Although that'd be all kinds of disturbing.
Agreed. And yet they have seen fit to look down their noses in disdain at literally all the other founding members of the Federation. They are exceptionally hypocritical, despite their professing logic as their main cultural driving force (one might say - GASP! Religion!!) They browbeat others with their vaunted "IDIC" philosophy (yet another of their tools they use to rationalize their alleged moral superiority), but are highly bigoted in a way that might make a Klansman blush, and xenophobic and distrustful towards other cultures for centuries.
In many ways, Romulans really are preferable to Vulcans. You pretty much know what to expect from them (who ironically embrace the philosophy, "to be unknowable is to be unconquerable") - you expect duplicity - and they're not all buttoned-up to the point their heads would explode if they didn't get laid or kill someone every 7 years.
Worse: long-long lectures and power point presentations.
Captain Archer?
Unfortunately, the real explanation is mostly likely just typical politics. The barbarism of some of the Vulcan culture was generally overlooked because of the scientific and technological contributions of the Vulcans to the Federation, plus the fact that they were one of the founding species. Seems doubtful the Federation would turn such a blind eye to more recent member candidates who may not bring as many benefits to the table. I know this is a cynical view, but politics and political practices seem to be universal and timeless.
That was younger Archer in the old days. By the time he got to the Fed Presidency, he had already been severely compromised by hungering after T'Pol for years ("A Night in Sickbay"), literally had the katra of Surak mashed into his brain (Kir'shara arc) and T'Pau herself (the overseer of all the barbaric practices seen in Amok Time) probably had him wrapped around her finger at this point. I'm not surprised the Fed let the Vulcans keep their barbarous ways with Archer as their puppet.#ArcherWasRight
That's an interesting guess. I got the impression the criminals can agree to rehabilitation or they serve time. Some people might rather serve time. But this iteration of T'Pring doesn't seem like the person you're describing here. Still I had the same thought about Stonn being one of the criminals she helps. I prefer to think what her group does is "helping" but we may find out differently down the road.
T'PRING: I wanted you to kill your friend. Then I would ghost you so hard your katra would want to jump off the summit of Mount Seleya. And then I would evict your human mother from your home in the middle of the night. I would also have your disease carrying sehlat euthanized. You would not want me then. And then Stonn and I would move into your ancestral home and begin to repopulate our race with purer Vulcans like ourselves. Is that not true, Stonn? Stonn???
STONN: *gulp*
SPOCK: Stonn? She is yours. Live long and prosper. T'Pring? Klingon opera and Shakepeare himself have nothing on you. I would have settled for a goodbye text. To quote my mother, "I am sick to death of logic."
>NERD<I see you're not up on TAS canon. Spock's Sehlat 'Ichya' sacrificed himself to save young Spock in the desert. He passed when Spock was 8 Vulcan years old...>/NERD<
Stonn: For what it's worth half-breed, she only treats you like trash. T'Pring is involved with countless Federation charities and intergalactic aid groups. She's been awarded for her selflessness and generosity many times. Everyone else can't be wrong. If you have problems with her Spock, it's because you yourself are a selfish half-human and Surak's way helps those who help themselves. Come on T'Pring, let's not waste any more words with this Vulcan social reject.
McCoy: Wow it seems some Vulcans certainly have been studying 21st century Earth ways despite their supposed disdain of our history.
She'll travel back in time to kill it before Spock can.>NERD<I see you're not up on TAS canon. Spock's Sehlat 'Ichya' sacrificed himself to save young Spock in the desert. He passed when Spock was 8 Vulcan years old...>/NERD<
>NERD+< But at the time Spock lived through the events of "Amok Time" this was not how the timeline went. "Yesteryear " had not reset the timeline yet, and therefore the Sehlat hadn't died during the (practice!) Kahs-Wan. Since Spock was able to remember the original timeline, this conversation would still be in his memory, even though it had never happened in the current version of reality.>NERD+<>NERD<I see you're not up on TAS canon. Spock's Sehlat 'Ichya' sacrificed himself to save young Spock in the desert. He passed when Spock was 8 Vulcan years old...>/NERD<
I really am looking forward to seeing the Spock/T'Pring story develop.
^^^
Good point...just goes to show Turtletrekker is correct and SOMEHOW T'Pring set everything up so that when Spock did travel to the past to correct the timeline in TAS - Yesteryear, his Sehlat sacrificed itself to save him...
Bottom line...What a BITCH!
I haven't read through the thread so some of what I write might be repetitive, but here goes:
Three quick points:
1) I distinctly remember Chapel saying to Spock in TOS: ‘What are little girls made of’ — “Mr. Spock, have you never been engaged?” Perhaps she was teasing him, but I'm guessing SNW has no compunction throwing MOST canon out the airlocks. More on that later. Anyway, who knows…they’re definitely establishing a close friendship between Chapel and Spock in SNW BEFORE Kirk ever shows up. The scene between Spock and Chapel in Amok Time in Spock's quarters was definitely unique in TOS in showing a somewhat closer friendship between them... there was pretty much nothing like that afterward.
2) They’re setting up the complexity and push-pull dynamic of the long distance relationship betw Spock and T’Pring because we all know where it’s going. This gives her character in Amok Time as well as their relationship in that episode just that much more emotional heft bc I really like this T'Pring and understand her. That throwaway line in the first episode where she says to Spock -- "everything can be done on Vulcan" (paraphrasing) and Spock then gives her an odd look... yep. T'Pring is in for a ride she won't like and my heart is already breaking for them both because THIS Spock is deeply infatuated by her.
3) I'm fairly concerned with the timeline of this whole Christine Chapel thing. Have they already retconned Roger Korby? Something doesn't seem right because in "What Are Little Girls Made Of" (TOS) where they finally find Korby, Jim Kirk says to Chapel that the last message they had received from Korby was 5 years ago. If we're talking the 3-year window of TOS set between 2265-2270, and the current SNW season is set in 2259, then they should have already met and already be engaged. If not, then either they've retconned Korby completely or there isn't much time for her to meet him, get engaged and LEAVE SF, and THEN GET BACK IN and start looking for him on Kirk's Enterprise?! Ugh. Maybe that is what Chapel was going to tell Ortegas at the end of the episode but held back 'cos it's kind of a secret? That she'd already met someone she's fallen deeply for? Or maybe she was thinking of Spock? Who knows? I'm just sick of canon issues that abound in these shows. I wish they could be a little more careful 'cos guessing takes away my enjoyment of the show a bit just because I'm that much of a canon whore
4) I did give it an 8 because it was such fun, but I'm watching it like a hawk for yaknowwhat
Three quick points:
1) I distinctly remember Chapel saying to Spock in TOS: ‘What are little girls made of’ — “Mr. Spock, have you never been engaged?” Perhaps she was teasing him, but I'm guessing SNW has no compunction throwing MOST canon out the airlocks. More on that later. Anyway, who knows…they’re definitely establishing a close friendship between Chapel and Spock in SNW BEFORE Kirk ever shows up. The scene between Spock and Chapel in Amok Time in Spock's quarters was definitely unique in TOS in showing a somewhat closer friendship between them... there was pretty much nothing like that afterward.
2) They’re setting up the complexity and push-pull dynamic of the long distance relationship betw Spock and T’Pring because we all know where it’s going. This gives her character in Amok Time as well as their relationship in that episode just that much more emotional heft bc I really like this T'Pring and understand her. That throwaway line in the first episode where she says to Spock -- "everything can be done on Vulcan" (paraphrasing) and Spock then gives her an odd look... yep. T'Pring is in for a ride she won't like and my heart is already breaking for them both because THIS Spock is deeply infatuated by her.
3) I'm fairly concerned with the timeline of this whole Christine Chapel thing. Have they already retconned Roger Korby? Something doesn't seem right because in "What Are Little Girls Made Of" (TOS) where they finally find Korby, Jim Kirk says to Chapel that the last message they had received from Korby was 5 years ago. If we're talking the 3-year window of TOS set between 2265-2270, and the current SNW season is set in 2259, then they should have already met and already be engaged. If not, then either they've retconned Korby completely or there isn't much time for her to meet him, get engaged and LEAVE SF, and THEN GET BACK IN and start looking for him on Kirk's Enterprise?! Ugh. Maybe that is what Chapel was going to tell Ortegas at the end of the episode but held back 'cos it's kind of a secret? That she'd already met someone she's fallen deeply for? Or maybe she was thinking of Spock? Who knows? I'm just sick of canon issues that abound in these shows. I wish they could be a little more careful 'cos guessing takes away my enjoyment of the show a bit just because I'm that much of a canon whore
4) I did give it an 8 because it was such fun, but I'm watching it like a hawk for yaknowwhat
The first solution is ideological in nature, but usually accomplishes nothing but allowing you to feel good about yourself because you stood up for what you feel is right.
The second is pragmatic and actually has a chance of making the situation better, but in a more gradual time frame.
I don't get this. All we know about Chapel in TOS is that she's a great nurse, had a fiance who got lost in space and turned into a robot, had a huge crush on Spock, and - when she did show any other personality - could be pretty cheeky. How does this contradict anything seen in SNW? Her reluctance to commit could either be a result of losing Korby or setting up an arc in which she falls for Korby (depending on where we are in relation to her relationship with Korby at this point). Her being more subdued in TOS could be a combination of her lost love, unrequited love, and just not being in her 20s any more...it all works fine for me.
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