@Noname Given :The Federation definitely becomes more centralized and coherent between the TOS and TNG eras. "Journey to Babel" wouldn't make sense as a TNG script.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x05 - "Spock Amok"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I disagree. In TOS S2 - "Journey To Babel" - they wanted to admit Coradin because it had Dilithium and was being illegally raided/mined by certain member worlds (or those worlds were purchasing Dilithium from the raiders (possibly Orion Pirates).
In the TNG era, you had Bajor - which the Federation let Cardassia hold until after a Treaty to end the Fed/Cardassian War - but my point? The Federation WANTED to admit Bajor BECAUSE of its strategic location (Read: Close to Cardassia and the Wormhole) - EVEN THOUGH it was still an internally non-unified world (it's provisional governments were consistently being violently overthrown see DS9 S2 - "The Circle"); and the only reason Bajor wasn't joining was because its Religious orders in the Vedic Assembly WANTED the Federation to provide certain things (which was why they allowed Starfleet joint control of DS9 with them). So yeah, even in the 24th century; if a world had something the Feds wanted/needed; certain membership requirements were annulled.
Without the wormhole and Sisko, Bajor would be admitted to the Federation sooner rather than later.
Hmm... Maybe starbases are numbered based on stardate math.
It seems to me that one thing that is mostly missing so far in SNW compared to TOS is a sense of deep space isolation. The Enterprise under Kirk had the premise that their five-year mission was far, far from Earth and often out-of-contact with Starfleet, with little expectation of support. The underlying impression was that Kirk and crew were essentially on their own and had to make decisions and take actions based on their own judgement, with little-to-no input from Starfleet Command. They often had to act independently from Starfleet. This is why starship captains in this era had broad discretionary authority to engage in either diplomacy or combat, and to come up with creative solutions to whatever anomaly, hostile alien, or unusual situation they encountered. The Enterprise in this era never even returned to the Sol system during their mission, at least as far as we were shown, and at least not in their own time period. I think this sense of isolation was a strong contributor to the drama and tension in TOS that has been mostly missing in all subsequent series.
Voyager was also isolated by their unique circumstances, but the writers failed to draw much drama or tension from that. Their ability to replicate most anything they needed and their advanced tech kind of negated their sense of hardship and sapped a lot of the drama from their journey.
This is not to say that SNW is not a good show. On the contrary I'm enjoying it immensely and think it's the best Trek in the current crop of ST shows. I love the show so far, but would like to see them get out of command's shadow a bit more.
I'm thinking a good place to go with this arc is that Spock and T'Pring eventually come to realize that they are not compatible and part ways. They are still bound together however, by both traditional and biological imperatives and are still compelled to be joined a few years later for the events in "Amok Time".
Based on the events in Amok Time, I think it more likely that T'Pring will come to this conclusion on her own and conveniently fail to inform Spock. Then when his Ponn Far rolls around, he's caught between a rock and a hard place.
I'm wondering if T'Pring had an even darker and more evil plan in mind for Spock as revenge for her belief that he prioritizes his job over her.
Knowing Vulcan biology, she knew that at some point Spock would undergo pon farr and she already had Stonn in mind as a backup plan. Furthemore, T'Pring couldn't have guaranteed Spock would bring Kirk and McCoy to fight Spock for her, and T'Pau almost bans them until Spock invokes his right to have friends accompany him under Vulcan law.
I'm going so far as to guess that T'Pring herself cuts off all contact with Spock once Stonn comes along, "ghosting" him so to speak and him not knowing what's going on and thus not making efforts to find another girlfriend to alleviate future pon farrs.
This then puts Spock in the extremely dangerous position of suddenly finding himself in pon farr on a starship that may be very far from Vulcan and no one to relieve it with. Yes, T'Pring may have actually planned for Spock to get arrested for assault on a starship and spend the rest of his life in prison to punish him for what she perceives are his failings. And she planned this by not just being honest about Stonn to give Spock time to find a new girlfriend (or make an arrangement with an Orion woman compassionate enough to help him, even if in return for payment, or something).
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If this were true, it would be worse. The least of Spock's problems would be to get arrested for assault. He specifically said that the Plak tow (blood fever) would kill him unless he went back home to Vulcan, hence Kirk's insistence to take him home against orders from the Admiralty. She knows this, which would mean she would want him dead. This also means that, as his betrothed, she would likely have inherited all his holdings and still have Stonn waiting in the stables to stud. Either way, vis a vis Spock's death or incarceration, she would have made out quite well in the end and nobody would likely have cared except his crewmates.
Heh... yeah, kind of.
Hmm... Maybe starbases are numbered based on stardate math.
It seems to me that one thing that is mostly missing so far in SNW compared to TOS is a sense of deep space isolation. The Enterprise under Kirk had the premise that their five-year mission was far, far from Earth and often out-of-contact with Starfleet, with little expectation of support. The underlying impression was that Kirk and crew were essentially on their own and had to make decisions and take actions based on their own judgement, with little-to-no input from Starfleet Command. They often had to act independently from Starfleet. This is why starship captains in this era had broad discretionary authority to engage in either diplomacy or combat, and to come up with creative solutions to whatever anomaly, hostile alien, or unusual situation they encountered. The Enterprise in this era never even returned to the Sol system during their mission, at least as far as we were shown, and at least not in their own time period. I think this sense of isolation was a strong contributor to the drama and tension in TOS that has been mostly missing in all subsequent series.
Voyager was also isolated by their unique circumstances, but the writers failed to draw much drama or tension from that. Their ability to replicate most anything they needed and their advanced tech kind of negated their sense of hardship and sapped a lot of the drama from their journey.
This is not to say that SNW is not a good show. On the contrary I'm enjoying it immensely and think it's the best Trek in the current crop of ST shows. I love the show so far, but would like to see them get out of command's shadow a bit more.
That’s a really interesting and astute observation. I feel like they’re just finding their feet with the show, and because of the high quality and enjoyable nature, it definitely gets a pass from me, but you’re right; I would like to see them off and exploring strange new worlds without any interference or planning. At least in a few episodes.
This brings up some weirdness of TOS regarding Vulcans. At that point in the series it's clear they weren't as well-known or as old a UFP member as they eventually were established as. Otherwise Starfleet would've had provisions for Spock and the crew of the Intrepid to return to Vulcan every 7 years, and to plan that in advance.
Yeah, the painted themselves into a very uncomfortable corner early on with a lot of those plot devices. They waved away the whole "Vulcanian" thing and Spock's "human ancestor" quickly became mommy. Vulcans, despite being one of the most well-known of the alien species in the entire half-century history of Star Trek, have probably had more contradictory things happen to their cultural backstories than the Klingons.
Welcome to the dirty world of politics and government bureaucracy. You don't want to see how the sausage is made.
Arranged marriage is still practiced in many countries even today, Some even bring it with them to this country when the immigrate here and still honor the tradition even when both parties know it is not binding here. In other words, some, not all, follow the tradition voluntarily.
Becoming the "property of the victor" is barbaric, but it was intentionally so for the writers of "Amok Time". They were trying to contrast the fact that the supremely logical Vulcans were very illogical when it came to their mating traditions. It was also to emphasize the mysticism and mystery of the Vulcans, which I'm concerned that SNW may be trying to de-emphasize somewhat.
Pike: So Spock, your father was with a Vulcan princess but your mother's a human?
Spock: My mother invoked Vulcan law and challenged the Vulcan princess in a fight to the death. She won, and Ambassador Sarek became her property.
Pike:
Spock: And people wonder why my half-brother Sybok walked out on and renounced Vulcan society.
It does look like T'Pring became more mercenary and even a little self-enriching by the time of "Amok Time", in that she was prepared to take Spock's "name and property, and Stonn would still be there" if Spock won the challenge and elected to marry her anyway.
