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Spoilers Star Trek: Starfleet Academy 1x01 – “Kids These Days”

Give it up for Robert Picardo folks!

  • 10 - Excellent!

    Votes: 14 9.2%
  • 9

    Votes: 24 15.7%
  • 8

    Votes: 51 33.3%
  • 7

    Votes: 29 19.0%
  • 6

    Votes: 12 7.8%
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    Votes: 6 3.9%
  • 2

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • 1 - Terrible!

    Votes: 3 2.0%

  • Total voters
    153
Amazing, everything you said is wrong.


I liked him more than the original.

No its not.
TOS was classic science fiction, where a lot of the episodes had some punch line/reveal at the end.

Modern streaming is mostly soaps that are more heavy on character development. They're also now leaning into writing, so that you can doom scroll on your phone and watch and not miss anything.

The good news is that you can always go and watch TOS and skip this show if you don't like it.

Pretty much what ive been having to do. But it's not good news when they are dumping on the source material. They are attempting to dismantle what came before. They didnt create the star trek universe. They should have more respect for it.

These shows are heavy in characters. The thing is they stuff the first episodes explaining everyone and their traumas. Back in the classic days they began right with the story. The Man Trap and Where No Man Has Gone Before didn't start with explaining who everyone was and their pasts. They just started with the adventure. We learn everything we need to know as they start doing their jobs over the course of 3 seasons. They didn't top load it. Better writing and better stories. Im sitting watching yhis second episode and seeing this pathetic character of Caleb still making a jerk of himself, still having mom issues, still.tryimg to escape, still hacking every system at the academy and still feeling superior. He nearly got the entire crew killed on the Athena and he got no reprimand or punishment. If it wasn't for him the battle never would hafe happened and another ship wouldn't gave been destroyed. After all that I dont care how good he does at the academy he is damaged goods.
 
Okay, so they are doing storytelling wrong because the show is not written like a pilot from the 60s?

And they are “dismantling”, “disrespecting” and “dumping on” the source material by adding homages to the older shows to their series?

Jay-Den, Genesis, Darem, the Doctor and Lura Thok “explained their traumas” in the premiere episodes? I missed this.

Got it.
 
Does it continue to undermine the ending of "Last Battlefield"?
No.

A whole world a thousands of years of history lost. It's tragic no matter the survivors.

undermines the loss of Cheron but honestly Star Wars has it worse with more survivors out of a couple of thousand from the Jedi purge (Grogu, Ahsoka, Barriss, Quinlan, Cal Kestis, probably missing some more)
Legends EU was far worse.
 
I feel sorry for Lokai, it seems the 3 other survivors all are black on the left side with him the only known survivor who is black on the right side. The TOS episode at least ended the race war on even footing. Now with the other 2 known survivors, we might assume they ganged up on Lokai.
 
It undermines the loss of Cheron but honestly Star Wars has it worse with more survivors out of a couple of thousand from the Jedi purge (Grogu, Ahsoka, Barriss, Quinlan, Cal Kestis, probably missing some more)
Caleb/Kanan, Baylan, Lyco, maybe whoever trained Jod...

(And Barriss of course has the excuse of being incarcerated at the time.)
 
These shows are heavy in characters. The thing is they stuff the first episodes explaining everyone and their traumas. Back in the classic days they began right with the story. The Man Trap and Where No Man Has Gone Before didn't start with explaining who everyone was and their pasts. They just started with the adventure. We learn everything we need to know as they start doing their jobs over the course of 3 seasons. They didn't top load it. Better writing and better stories. Im sitting watching yhis second episode and seeing this pathetic character of Caleb still making a jerk of himself, still having mom issues, still.tryimg to escape, still hacking every system at the academy and still feeling superior. He nearly got the entire crew killed on the Athena and he got no reprimand or punishment. If it wasn't for him the battle never would hafe happened and another ship wouldn't gave been destroyed. After all that I dont care how good he does at the academy he is damaged goods.
It's a soap, which is fine. A lot of shows are serialized soaps these days.

If you go back and read 50s and 60s science fiction, it was heavy on plot and some science, not characters.

It's different today.

If you like the old stuff, then read and rewatch the old stuff. Nothing wrong with that. Tastes change over time. I've been reading a lot of short fiction by Harlan Ellison lately, and I'm making my way through his Dangerous Visions. Some of it I like. Some of it I don't. I can't get into Riders of the Purple Wage, and it won a Hugo. All because you're a fan of Star Trek doesn't mean you have to like all Star Trek.
 
Yep.

But sometimes fans of an IP feel like they have to watch and like everything by that IP. And then they learn that they don't like all of it. That's okay.
I got over that by TNG.

TOS is its own thing. Everything else is gravy.


I feel sorry for Lokai, it seems the 3 other survivors all are black on the left side with him the only known survivor who is black on the right side. The TOS episode at least ended the race war on even footing. Now with the other 2 known survivors, we might assume they ganged up on Lokai.
 
Pretty much what ive been having to do. But it's not good news when they are dumping on the source material. They are attempting to dismantle what came before. They didnt create the star trek universe. They should have more respect for it.
No.

It's fiction. Fiction doesn't warrant respect. If the new stuff isn't as enjoyable as the old, the old continues to exist. It doesn't stop, so isn't dismantled, or disrespected. It simply is different.
 
I feel sorry for Lokai, it seems the 3 other survivors all are black on the left side with him the only known survivor who is black on the right side. The TOS episode at least ended the race war on even footing. Now with the other 2 known survivors, we might assume they ganged up on Lokai.
What a weird thing to say. This sounds like it completely ignores the anti-racist message of the original episode. Let’s assume three black men and one white supremacist were the last survivors on Earth. Would you expect the three black men to “gang up” on the white guy? And we should worry about how the white guy feels about this why? :confused:
 
What a weird thing to say. This sounds like it completely ignores the anti-racist message of the original episode. Let’s assume three black men and one white supremacist were the last survivors on Earth. Would you expect the three black men to “gang up” on the white guy? And we should worry about how the white guy feels about this why? :confused:
I got the impression the whole world of Cheron was involved in the race war but it's possible the survivors other than Bele and Lokai weren't
 
That’s awesome! Isn’t he just the coolest guy ever? Really hoping he’ll be at a European convention some day.
He's so fun to follow on Instagram with all of his videos and things from the set and the promotional tour. I get a sense he really loves this show in a way that feels genuine beyond it being a paying gig.
 
TOS was classic science fiction, where a lot of the episodes had some punch line/reveal at the end.

Modern streaming is mostly soaps that are more heavy on character development. They're also now leaning into writing, so that you can doom scroll on your phone and watch and not miss anything.

The good news is that you can always go and watch TOS and skip this show if you don't like it.

TOS was mostly "premise-based." It's essentially an anthology show which happens to have a set main cast. Gene Coon & Co did work the episodes to make sure the dialogue mostly fit the characterization (particularly for Kirk, Spock, and McCoy) but in 95% of the episodes, you could see the exact same story being told with a different crew/cast, with the outcome only slightly different.

Modern streaming shows are mostly plot based though, not character based. The writing hinges on the big twists that will keep the fans engrossed from episode to episode. However, once a season is over, many of them lack anything resembling an arc for the main characters. The characters move to follow the plot, rather than the inverse.

I'd also argue that something like the stereotypical soap is not character-based writing. It's plot-based writing, it's just that the character twists are the plot, if it makes sense. They'll completely subvert earlier character development and give characters entirely new personalities if they think it's needed to bump the ratings. Real character-based writing starts with an understanding of who the characters are, and putting them into a scenario that challenges them and makes them grow as a person (or decline, decline is fine too, but it must make sense).

I'd say DS9 was the only Star Trek show that was predominantly character based. SNW dabbled with it a tiny bit at the start, but is moving to premise-based writing ala TOS.

We may, finally, be getting character-based Trek again with SFA. Time will tell.
 
TOS was mostly "premise-based." It's essentially an anthology show which happens to have a set main cast. Gene Coon & Co did work the episodes to make sure the dialogue mostly fit the characterization (particularly for Kirk, Spock, and McCoy) but in 95% of the episodes, you could see the exact same story being told with a different crew/cast, with the outcome only slightly different.
And that's why TOS was the absolute GOAT.
Don't like mystery stories? Next week is a drama. After that we have a monster.
And I'd argue throwing the same characters into so many different situations created very consistent characters.
Like, for Benjamin Sisko I know very well how he'd handle a confrontation. But for Spock, I know how he'd act in pretty much any situation. Be it a mystery, getting falsely accused, a romance, or having a science problem to solve.

Modern streaming shows are mostly plot based though, not character based. The writing hinges on the big twists that will keep the fans engrossed from episode to episode. However, once a season is over, many of them lack anything resembling an arc for the main characters. The characters move to follow the plot, rather than the inverse.

I'd also argue that something like the stereotypical soap is not character-based writing. It's plot-based writing, it's just that the character twists are the plot, if it makes sense. They'll completely subvert earlier character development and give characters entirely new personalities if they think it's needed to bump the ratings. Real character-based writing starts with an understanding of who the characters are, and putting them into a scenario that challenges them and makes them grow as a person (or decline, decline is fine too, but it must make sense).
I understand what you mean, but I wouldn't call this "plot-based" writing. It's "scene-based" writing, or "moments-based" writing.

Basically we get an intimidating villain-introduction scene. We get a "fuck-yeah"-victory scene. And we get a big cliffhanger moment at the end. But not so much effort is actually put into connecting these moments well, it's more important that many big moments happen, with as little "filler" as possible between them.

For me "plot-based" writing would be what TNG or even ENT did. They put a lot of effort into setting up A, B and C, and then have the consequences of C help with the resolution of A. For TNG it's often about rules, regulations, negotiations etc. On ENT (e.g. the Xindi war) it's often about when do which characters learn about what information, talk to whom, are on which ships when stuff happens and meet up where again.

This is a lot less "exciting" than the more emotional scene-based writing. On TNG even the big, emotional resolution moments were usually just two guys standing straight in a room & talking to each other. And a majority of scenes before that are just set-ups & info-dumps without an immediate resolution or "highlight".

This is also my personal favourite type of storytelling in sci-fi. For purely character-based drama often other genres (dramas, historicals) are a better fit. And the "scene"-based writing is inconsistent with good worldbuilding (internal consistency, logic, set-ups & pay-offs), which is nowhere as important as in sci-fi or spy stories.
I'd say DS9 was the only Star Trek show that was predominantly character based. SNW dabbled with it a tiny bit at the start, but is moving to premise-based writing ala TOS.
Yes, DS9 was "character-based" storytelling (at least once it got good). The same team went much further on BSG, which was almost exclusively a character drama show.
We may, finally, be getting character-based Trek again with SFA. Time will tell.
This is where I disagree. We already saw two episodes now. This is the same type of emotional, "moments"-based show like Discovery or the JJmovies were. It's much more important that Caleb has an exciting, visually appealing moment when meeting a girl ("sitting on the fence"), than having this line up with his struggles & choices in the previous episode, or go into details why the girl was there alone.
 
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Any society with super advanced cloaking tech that even the Enterprise had never encountered and had clothing with integrated, personal shield generators can easily have colonies and settlements outside their star system. 50,000 years or longer is a very decent amount of time for a spacefaring civilization to have seeded other worlds.
 
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