Spoilers Star Trek: Starfleet Academy 1x01 – “Kids These Days”

[eschaton]

And that's why TOS was the absolute GOAT.
Don't like mystery stories? Next week is a drama. After that we have a monster.
And I'd argue throwing the same characters into so many different situations created very consistent characters.
Like, for Benjamin Sisko I know very well how he'd handle a confrontation. But for Spock, I know how he'd act in pretty much any situation. Be it a mystery, getting falsely accused, a romance, or having a science problem to solve.

I agree that TOS's versatility was a strength, but I don't think there was all that much characterization on the page, though it developed organically over time

Let's use Spock as an example. Nimoy was clear that the decision to move from "smiling Spock" from The Cage to the taciturn Spock we came to know was driven to a significant extent by his acting choices in reacting to the different leads. Hunter had a more closed, cerebral style, so he felt he had to punch up Spock's emotion to balance this. In contrast, Shatner was a giant ham, so he needed to play off of this by being cool as a cucumber. The writers saw how Spock was being portrayed in the early TOS episodes, and responded to this by giving him more lines (and eventually backstory) which worked with this. Eventually we got whole episodes like The Galileo Seven which explored Spock as a character.

Thing is, Spock is as good as it got for TOS when it came to characterization. Kirk got way, way more content, but as the lead, he was the main character, so whatever the story needed for the main character was given to him by default. You could see a Star Trek where those same stories were all given to Hunter's Pike, and having it largely work. McCoy and Scotty arguably both got an episode during TOS's run, and the rest of the cast, not even that.

One thing I am realizing about how TOS (hell, Berman Trek as well) worked, is that the tight production schedules and quick turnarounds on scripts meant they could pivot mid-season in a way that modern shows just can't. Things like Odo's love for Kira all spun out of a wounded look that Rene Auberjonois improved. Nowadays, if the actor improvises in a way that gives a writing idea, you might already have the scripts for the next season in the can, if not the one after that.

I understand what you mean, but I wouldn't call this "plot-based" writing. It's "scene-based" writing, or "moments-based" writing.

Basically we get an intimidating villain-introduction scene. We get a "fuck-yeah"-victory scene. And we get a big cliffhanger moment at the end. But not so much effort is actually put into connecting these moments well, it's more important that many big moments happen, with as little "filler" as possible between them.

This style of writing is very new, TBH, and postdates both modern serialization and streaming series. I mean, Stranger Things wasn't written like this in Season 1, but absolutely was by Season 5.

For me "plot-based" writing would be what TNG or even ENT did. They put a lot of effort into setting up A, B and C, and then have the consequences of C help with the resolution of A. For TNG it's often about rules, regulations, negotiations etc. On ENT (e.g. the Xindi war) it's often about when do which characters learn about what information, talk to whom, are on which ships when stuff happens and meet up where again.

This is a lot less "exciting" than the more emotional scene-based writing. On TNG even the big, emotional resolution moments were usually just two guys standing straight in a room & talking to each other. And a majority of scenes before that are just set-ups & info-dumps without an immediate resolution or "highlight".

This is also my personal favourite type of storytelling in sci-fi. For purely character-based drama often other genres (dramas, historicals) are a better fit. And the "scene"-based writing is inconsistent with good worldbuilding (internal consistency, logic, set-ups & pay-offs), which is nowhere as important as in sci-fi or spy stories.

What you're distinguishing between here is good plot based writing versus bad plot-based writing. They're both still plot based. You're writing towards a pre-ordained series of events, and trying to shoehorn the characters into the story, rather than creating a scenario, and letting the characters react to the events in the way that makes the most sense given their motivations.

This is where I disagree. We already saw two episodes now. This is the same type of emotional, "moments"-based show like Discovery or the JJmovies were. It's much more important that Caleb has an exciting, visually appealing moment when meeting a girl ("sitting on the fence"), than having this line up with his struggles & choices in the previous episode, or go into details why the girl was there alone.

This is very different from DIS. In both episodes, Caleb had a coherent character arc. Arguably a repetitive one, since the lesson he learned (opening up and trusting others) is the same. However, Caleb ends the episodes in a different place than he begins. This is something that nearly every single episode of Discovery failed in. We got five seasons with Michael Burnham, and the show still didn't have a clear idea who she was as a person by the end!

I'd also note that in Episode 2, we have the first episode of live-action Trek since the Berman era without a lick of violence or peril. It's all down to the drama.

 

[I am not Spock]

also Ad Astra Per Aspera in SNW season 2. I don't remember any violence in it at all. Felt like a Berman era episode. Thats why i liked it so much.

Same with episode 2 of SFA. i really enjoyed it. Felt like a 90s Trek episode. Just characters talking

 

[fireproof78]

We got five seasons with Michael Burnham, and the show still didn't have a clear idea who she was as a person by the end!

She was a leader.

I followed her arc just fine. She didn't know if she fit in to the new world, and still was healing from the trauma. Seeing Spock succeed in a way inspired her to continue forward. Not sure what was unclear about her as a person. Her journey was one of slowly letting go of her pain.

also Ad Astra Per Aspera in SNW season 2. I don't remember any violence in it at all. Felt like a Berman era episode. Thats why i liked it so much.

Same with episode 2 of SFA. i really enjoyed it. Felt like a 90s Trek episode. Just characters talking

We had a Discovery episode that was all about the characters, especially Detmer, making peace with the time jump. Hardly a lot of action. It was quite well done. Strange New Worlds didn't involve much action at all, with the drama coming more from the disguises failing, and Pike showing off the ENTERPRISE.

Despite the detractors claim, newer Trek is not balls to the walls action nor is it all crying over emotions all the time (explain to me how that fucking works any reasonable way).

 

[The Wormhole]

I feel sorry for Lokai, it seems the 3 other survivors all are black on the left side with him the only known survivor who is black on the right side.

The Cheron cadet we see in SFA is black on the right, white on the left, same as Lokai. Virgil in Section 31 was white on the right and black on the left. So we have balance between the two ethnicities again.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Cheron cadet we see in SFA is black on the right, white on the left, same as Lokai. Virgil in Section 31 was white on the right and black on the left. So we have balance between the two ethnicities again.

Actually she looks like Bele. Lokai is black on the left side.

 

[The Wormhole]

Holy shit, I am definitely getting cross-eyed comparing Cheron photos. I've finally consulted Memory Alpha on the matter, and yeah, she is Bele's ethnicity. Damn it, I somehow had it in my head she was Lokai's and even thought that made sense. She's Lokai's and gets into Starfleet, Virgil was Bele's ethnicity and thus works for Georgiou. But I was wrong.

So, I guess either this cadet is an outlier or the surviving black/white folks learned to put aside their differences with the white/black ones, given I don't see Starfleet accepting anyone who was so opening bigoted.

 

[fireproof78]

Holy shit, I am definitely getting cross-eyed comparing Cheron photos. I've finally consulted Memory Alpha on the matter, and yeah, she is Bele's ethnicity. Damn it, I somehow had it in my head she was Lokai's and even thought that made sense. She's Lokai's and gets into Starfleet, Virgil was Bele's ethnicity and thus works for Georgiou. But I was wrong.

So, I guess either this cadet is an outlier or the surviving black/white folks learned to put aside their differences with the white/black ones, given I don't see Starfleet accepting anyone who was so opening bigoted.

I mean, the war went on for a long time, and I can easily imagine factions or colonies leaving the planet because "Forever War" gets tiresome.

 

[Michael]

There should be a three-novel epic about the white-on-the-right-side-Cheronian diaspora. @Greg Cox, get to work on it, please!

 

[DEWLine]

Yeah. I'm okay with that idea of a Cheronian diaspora, actually.

 

[The Wormhole]

There should be a three-novel epic about the white-on-the-right-side-Cheronian diaspora. @Greg Cox, get to work on it, please!

In all seriousness, Greg Cox did great job developing Cheron culture in the TOS novel No Time Like the Past. Granted, Cheron only plays a small part in that novel.

 

[Michael]

^ Thanks for the tip! Will have to check that out one of these days!

 

[Fateor]

It uses DNA to restore Pulaski back. Why can't that be true?

Because it's never used to reverse normal aging, which means narrative logic is that it can't be used to reverse normal aging.

Same thing with the way Prodigey had them use the Cerberusian gene therapy to counter Tyress's accelerated aging.

Tell your story about people, not about science and gadgetry. Joe Friday doesn't stop to explain the mechanics of his .38 before he uses it; Kildare never did a monologue about the theory of anesthetics; Matt Dillon never identifies and discusses the breed of his horse before he rides off on it.

- Gene Roddenberry, The Star Trek Guide, April 17, 1967, page 5.

That doesn't really counter what I said.

Joe Friday doesn't stop to explain the mechanics of his .38, but he would stop to explain that the guy he shot was saved by the bible in his pocket blocking the bullet.

Which is the same here, the story doesn't stop to explain the mechanics of the Transporter, but it does stop to explain why the Transporter can't be used to rescue the away team stuck in a cave.

 

[fireproof78]

Because it's never used to reverse normal aging, which means narrative logic is that it can't be used to reverse normal aging.

Same thing with the way Prodigey had them use the Cerberusian gene therapy to counter Tyress's accelerated aging.

Which logically makes zero sense. None whatsoever. It's a feature of the transporter never used again.

And, I found one episode where the transporter is just forgotten: Q-Less (DS9).

 

[Firebird]

Joe Friday doesn't stop to explain the mechanics of his .38, but he would stop to explain that the guy he shot was saved by the bible in his pocket blocking the bullet.

Those two ideas are not the same thing, and you know that.

 

[Fateor]

Which logically makes zero sense. None whatsoever. It's a feature of the transporter never used again.

When else did they come upon that exact circumstance?

And, I found one episode where the transporter is just forgotten: Q-Less (DS9).

They directly show us in that episode that Deep Space Nine's transporters, at that time, cannot perform a site to site transport without a com-badge to lock onto.

Because it was an entire plot point that Sisko had to slap his combadge onto the plot box so they could transport it into space.

Those two ideas are not the same thing, and you know that.

Narratively speaking they absolutely are.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Narratively speaking they absolutely are.

Haha. No.

 

[fireproof78]

When else did they come upon that exact circumstance?

Probably would have been useful when they were stranded in a time travel situation. But, the larger question is why is it limited to this one instance?

They directly show us in that episode that Deep Space Nine's transporters, at that time, cannot perform a site to site transport without a com-badge to lock onto.

Because it was an entire plot point that Sisko had to slap his combadge onto the plot box so they could transport it into space.

Sooo...they can't utilize a runabout which is established they have? It's dramatic connivence of forgetting the transporter, as it is standard operation procedure for Star Trek.

 

[Tosk]

The Cheron cadet we see in SFA is black on the right, white on the left, same as Lokai. Virgil in Section 31 was white on the right and black on the left. So we have balance between the two ethnicities again.

Begging your pardon, but I think you might be incorrect.

 

[The Wormhole]

Begging your pardon, but I think you might be incorrect.

Keep reading, I eat crow in this post:

Holy shit, I am definitely getting cross-eyed comparing Cheron photos. I've finally consulted Memory Alpha on the matter, and yeah, she is Bele's ethnicity. Damn it, I somehow had it in my head she was Lokai's and even thought that made sense. She's Lokai's and gets into Starfleet, Virgil was Bele's ethnicity and thus works for Georgiou. But I was wrong.

So, I guess either this cadet is an outlier or the surviving black/white folks learned to put aside their differences with the white/black ones, given I don't see Starfleet accepting anyone who was so opening bigoted.

 

[Tosk]

Keep reading, I eat crow in this post:

My apologies for overlooking the follow-up.