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Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x20 - "Supernova, Part 2"

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I see the reasoning, but what many people don't seem to realise is that this would mean that Earth is by far the dominant member of the Federation, if it can force an obligation on others to learn one of Earth's languages while the same isn't true in reverse (i.e., Earth officers are not required to learn one of the languages of Vulcans, Tellarites or Andorians). OK, we could say that Starfleet really is an Earth institution (it started out as one and is still largely human-staffed) and so the requirement is not unreasonable, but OTOH it seems to be responsible for so much (including the bulk of the defense) within the entire Federation that entry of non-Earthers should not be impeded. And learning a language can be a real barrier, especially when languages within the Federation in general and Earth in particular would be so diverse that the UT would be doing overtime (and one would rarely hear conversations that were entirely native "standard"). Languages are learned by using them, hearing, speaking, writing. And that needs to be maintained or the knowledge slips (but not with Vau N'akat, I suppose).

I never meant 'force' others to learn Standard.
My point was to illustrate that the founding members seemingly decided English would be known as 'Standard' in UFP (possibly also because it may be one of the easiest/simplest languages to learn) and as such, I was half expecting that 'standard' (whichever language it would end up being, if not English) would be taught as part of a regular curriculuum in UFP so that everyone would be capable of communicating with each other in case technology breaks down.

Standard - I think the writers call it that way because that way, it can be whatever language the show is dubbed in (in the Spanish version, Fed Standard would be Spanish). But in practice, in-universe, "standard" may be limited to English being the official language things are documented in, the default setting of the consoles, etc, without a real requirement for general officers to learn it (with the possible exception of certain specialised or official functions - maybe it is expected of a Fleet Admiral, for example).

Not sure what the real life explanation is, but I would imagine any large interstellar alliance would have a single language that everyone would be taught (in addition to various species learning their own native planets languages).

As we saw, each species still has its own language even in the 32nd century... so it stands to reason that if they were UFP members, 'Standard' would be taught as part of their curricullum.

That she could have looked is true, but when her father was dying she specifically said that she didn't know where Solum was. So apparently, she didn't.

Hm... perhaps she did but couldn't figure it out earlier because of everything that was happening. Remember that when we are stressed, we can easily forget even most basic things.
Maybe she had a chace to look for it when things settled down, and quite possibly during their 1 month of travel to Earth in a shuttle (which still begs a large amount of questions).

I also took a look at the scenes in the holo from S1e10, and I didn't even see any stars visible (maybe when the holo shifted from present day Solum to 50 years later, but that went by very quickly in a chaotic jumble). Gwyn apparently took a small element from that, from memory. And it's not like Soji and the moons of her home, those were prominent elements. Gwyn is looking at some Star clusters without properties that are immediately obvious to set them apart. While simultaneously taking in the main point of the demo (that city on Solum and its surroundings) and discussing/arguing with her father.

Its possible the holo showed more things that we (as observers) didn't get see.
Who knows.
Its also possible Gwyn went through the recording more than once after regaining her memory (she certainly did go over it to show what happened in the holodeck with her father).
Its possible there were elements to the holo that we just didn't see.
 
they also have a lower budget, though.

They would still have to recreate any STO ship using the CGI format for the show.
So it’s not necessary to use a STO ship when they could potentially recreate any ship they wanted, or just make a new design (although I’m still baffled as to why they chose a Centaur as one of the fleet ships).
 
Part 2 gets an 8/10 from me.

A very solid season of Trek! Did they stick the landing? Mostly. Parts 1 and 2 should have definitely been shown together. The 2nd part seemed very rushed.
  • So the Weapon can take complete control of Starfleet ships. Except for the one it's on apparently. Why did it allow itself to be taken away from the battlefield?
  • The kids drifted aimlessly on a shuttle for a month and then crashed right in San Franciso next to Starfleet Academy without being intercepted by any orbital Starfleet resources?
  • Holo-Janeway went down with the ship saving her crew just as the real Captain Janeway would have if needed. Her interactions with the kids were highlights of the season. "Go fast." :(
  • Admiral Janeway taking the kids under her wing as officers in training is perfect. Let's see the Voyager-A and Season 2 "The Search for Chakotay!" soon.
  • Gwyn bailing to help her planet kind of makes sense. She wishes to honor her father. The Unifier, I liked it.
  • I enjoyed the Star Trek 4 tribunal vibe. Saving Starfleet and getting a second chance is very much in keeping with Star Trek tradition.
  • That abrupt cut at the end as other have mentioned. WTF. Clearly there was more to see. Not the first time they've done this either. Maybe we'll get some deep cuts released in the lead up to the new season next year. A quick tease of the Voyager-A would have been nice.
  • I'm looking forward to some VOY cameos next season as Kate Mulgrew suggested. I'm even hoping for LTCDR Harry Kim as First Officer of Voyager-A. I'm not even rooting for a Cavitt ending for him right away Oddish. ;)
 
So the Weapon can take complete control of Starfleet ships. Except for the one it's on apparently. Why did it allow itself to be taken away from the battlefield?

Because it was supposed to be piloted by one of the Vau... ah, Gwyn's people. If it was destroyed before Starfleet was, the carnage would stop.

The kids drifted aimlessly on a shuttle for a month and then crashed right in San Franciso next to Starfleet Academy without being intercepted by any orbital Starfleet resources?

It was a Starfleet shuttle, with a Starfleet IFF. Given the sheer volume of traffic around Earth, they probably can't prosecute every shuttle.

Holo-Janeway went down with the ship saving her crew just as the real Captain Janeway would have if needed. Her interactions with the kids were highlights of the season. "Go fast." :(

This show had a whole lot of Janeway at her best. The Janeway I came to admire, despite the unevenness of her first show.

Gwyn bailing to help her planet kind of makes sense. She wishes to honor her father. The Unifier, I liked it.

She hopes to do what he set out to... but in the right way.

enjoyed the Star Trek 4 tribunal vibe. Saving Starfleet and getting a second chance is very much in keeping with Star Trek tradition.

Same. :)

I'm looking forward to some VOY cameos next season as Kate Mulgrew suggested. I'm even hoping for LTCDR Harry Kim as First Officer of Voyager-A. I'm not even rooting for a Cavitt ending for him right away Oddish. ;)

Ughhh... that would be horrible. Harry was a character who deserved better than he got. I hope that Prodigy works to fix that, not double down on it.
 
When the Vesta was added to STO, Cryptic and CBS had to negotiate a licence with Radmaker to use and sell the design in the game's store. You can't 3D print the original Vesta design in STO either because of that. The EP of Cryptic at the time said it was a pain in the ass to get.

I'm guessing a similar licence was negotiated with Eaglemoss.
That is not at all how licensing works.

Paramount/CBS owns the Vesta design period, they can use it however they want, whenever they want.

Same. Before Discovery, Voyager was my least favorite Star Trek, and I fucking hated Janeway. Prodigy Janeway is a much more likeable character for some reason. She's kinda like Admiral Mom now, and it fits.
Kate Mulgrew's ego problems, while filming Voyager she very much had to be "The Captain".
 
Paramount/CBS owns the Vesta design period,
No they don’t. If they did, Cryptic wouldn’t have had to negotiate with the designer to use it, CBS would have just given the go ahead.

I was there when the ship was added to the game. I remember the dev posts, they had to go through Rademaker to get permission to use the design in the game. If CBS had owned the design, none of that would have been needed. The EP of cryptic said the negotiations were a pain in the butt.

I have friends who can back me up on this, they were also playing the game when the ship was added.


Edit: here we go
https://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1050720-ask-cryptic_-march-2012
Q: (yeayea911) When will we see the level cap lifted to get to the rank of Admiral and are we ever going to see the Vesta Class?

Dstahl: We have not yet decided when we will raise the level cap to Fleet Admiral, but that is not stopping our plans to introduce new types of gameplay for max level players. Before we can raise the level cap, we need to ensure that there is fun and compelling content worth raising the level-cap for. My approach is to address the content issue first and then we will tackle the level cap issue. As far as the Vesta, we continue to negotiate for the rights to use the ship, so we haven’t given up on that.

And
https://www.engadget.com/2012-08-13-captains-log-star-trek-online-in-las-vegas.html

But Stahl did confirm that the game will be seeing the Vesta-class ship in game, maybe as soon as Season Seven, once the final legal hurdles have been jumped by CBS Studios and the ship's designer, Mark Rademaker.

If CBS owned the design, there would have been no need for any negotiations with Mark Rademaker.
 
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Not sure what the real life explanation is, but I would imagine any large interstellar alliance would have a single language that everyone would be taught (in addition to various species learning their own native planets languages).

As we saw, each species still has its own language even in the 32nd century... so it stands to reason that if they were UFP members, 'Standard' would be taught as part of their curricullum.
'Standard' may be very difficult to learn for some species within the Federation (I imagine a Brikar would have difficulties, for example), and learning it to a sufficient degree as to be able to communicate is not a half effort: you still have to speak/hear/maintain the language (whereas the UT is so incredibly convenient and everybody has so much other things to learn with the vast knowledge base of the Federation).

As an example of a large alliance lacking a single language that everyone would be taught: in the EU, comparable in some (not all) respects to the Federation, this is not the case. I'm not sure to what extent it is true in another large alliance that is in some respects comparable to Starfleet: NATO. I don't think every NATO soldier/specialist is required to know English, not sure about officers. I think it is probably restricted to certain categories, like military pilots. A tank commander in, say, Poland, would not necessarily be able to speak English even though that this is certainly the main language of that alliance.

And not everybody in the EU speaks either French or German (let alone both) to the extent they can actually communicate in it.

Learning languages is hard, for most (maybe all) people.

Its possible the holo showed more things that we (as observers) didn't get see.
Who knows.
Its also possible Gwyn went through the recording more than once after regaining her memory (she certainly did go over it to show what happened in the holodeck with her father).
Its possible there were elements to the holo that we just didn't see.
Yes, it's very likely Gwyn saw something that wasn't shown on screen, to us. But the point remains that this tiny star cluster (as it would be in the sky of Solum) wasn't at all highlighted in the holosimulation, unlike the twin moons that Soji saw. And that she would have to recall it from memory at Starfleet HQ (we can assume the hastily created shuttle did not have a copy of the holorecording), in order to distinguish it from all other star clusters that may vaguely look like it.

Along with her incredible ability with languages, and the telepathic/telekinetic properties, It's still a clear indication - IMO - that Vau N'akat are on another level as far as their fysiology (maybe this is the wrong word, but I hope you get my meaning) goes. Vulcans are standouts among prominent Federation members, with several abilities not seen in humans and probably Tellarites and Andorians, but even they seem to be significantly less developed as a species in certain aspects.

Both Ascencia and The Diviner have used the word "primitive" to describe other species or the UFP alliance, and while obviously not true in every sense, their feeling of superiority may be coming from the apparent discrepancy in the abilities that they demonstrate vs the average Federation denizen, as well as their apparent progress with AI/IT tech and protomatter. And thus not quite be as delusional as it sounds at first.

  • So the Weapon can take complete control of Starfleet ships. Except for the one it's on apparently. Why did it allow itself to be taken away from the battlefield?
  • The kids drifted aimlessly on a shuttle for a month and then crashed right in San Franciso next to Starfleet Academy without being intercepted by any orbital Starfleet resources?
  • Gwyn bailing to help her planet kind of makes sense. She wishes to honor her father. The Unifier, I liked it.
The weapon: as crazy4xmaslights noted, the Protostar was supposed to be crewed by Vau N'akat who knew what they were doing. So the weapon will hesitate to sabotage the tools they should use, perhaps not helped by the presence of an actual Vau N'akat on board (the weapon may not be intelligent enough, or not be programmed to distinguish if this Vau N'akat is going with the program or not). It also wouldn't want to do what it did with CR721, because a series of malfunctions would make it impossible to use the ship further.

Crashing in Frisco: I guess this is an ST4 homage on the one hand, and an attempt to sell copies of the tie-in novel that has been announced (concerning their month-long journey with the barebones shuttle) on the other hand. For the episode it's a misstep, but it doesn't change much if they were just picked up near the Sol system by a starship, so we can let it slide as an homage that doesn't really make sense but does not really detract from the story.

Gwyn does not so much wants to honor her father (though it being his dying request does add to the pressure, I suppose), as she wants to save it from the apocalyptic vision of destruction that her father "divined" to her. Which is an enormous task, and one she said in S01e18 she never asked for. However, Gwyn does have tools in her arsenal that other Vau N'akat lack: knowledge of a realistic and very bad outcome for the future, knowledge of the Federation and other alien cultures/alliances/empires/threats, a working relation with Starfleet (at least I hope so!) and a clear tie to the Diviner (who will be around in a much younger version, and hopefully she will be able to reach him and communicate with him, both verbally and through her built-in bluetooth telepathy). It's a real shame she will have to do it all alone though (with the possible exception of some Starfleet support, but we'll see - why was Dal, at least, not sent to accompany and comfort her?).
 
I love the Vesta design but it doesn't fit for Voyager.
(first comment for 2023)

It fits better than all those STO ships they used for PIC season 2.

Don't worry. Unlike that aforementioned show, I have faith in PRO that the Voyager-A will be a new design and not something borrowed from STO or anywhere else. I think we already got an Easter Egg with the new nacelle design seen on the Voyager-A's shuttles.
 
Which she has taken responsibility for. She was certainly not the only Trek actor who was a pain sometimes.
Yes, but I am explaining to him why Janeway is so much more likeable in Prodigy.

All these years of actor personal growth is really showing.


No they don’t. If they did, Cryptic wouldn’t have had to negotiate with the designer to use it, CBS would have just given the go ahead.

I was there when the ship was added to the game. I remember the dev posts, they had to go through Rademaker to get permission to use the design in the game. If CBS had owned the design, none of that would have been needed. The EP of cryptic said the negotiations were a pain in the butt.

I have friends who can back me up on this, they were also playing the game when the ship was added.

Edit: here we go
https://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1050720-ask-cryptic_-march-2012

And
https://www.engadget.com/2012-08-13-captains-log-star-trek-online-in-las-vegas.html

If CBS owned the design, there would have been no need for any negotiations with Mark Rademaker.
That doesn't say what you seem to think it does.

I'm also here directly telling you that's not how it works. Mark Rademaker designed the graphic for the already existent Vesta class under the CBS/Paramount license. That means that graphic is owned by CBS/Paramount.
 
I thought the Living Construct was bypassed far too easily and without a really good explanation.

Another NuTrek serial series that fails to stick the landing.

Disco: 1/4 (I give S4 the benefit of the doubt)
Picard: 0/2
Prodigy: 0/1
Lower Decks: 2/3 (S2 & S3)

It was not a bad episode, but the main obstacle was just overcome by means I did not buy. Cannot go higher than 7.
 
Well, even if he did spray paint it across the Paramount Studios parking lot and take photos, it's still not canon if it doesn't appear on screen ..

Or appears in an official communication from someone in authority at Paramount.

About the protodrive. Like the quantum slipstream drive, it's great for going long distnaces, but try going just a couple of blocks with it... That's why it won't replace warp drive.
 
Because dilithium was in considerable short supply and still considered a volatile unknown after The Burn. It’s also possible given the odd time wormhole creation that the Proto-drive may prove too unreliable for anything but specialized missions. Same reason that quantum slipstream was mentioned in DIS S3, but not an option; benamite crystals were too rare to be scalable fleet wide.

Its not a matter of impossibility — the couriers like Book prove that in DIS S3. It’s scalability.

I think they are talking pre-Burn, not post-Burn.
 
Let's hope it gets acknowledged by Paramount. Online, there are still many reactions to the show that are negative, among Trek fans: "I don't want to watch 6 Wesley Crushers" - "it's not Star Trek, it's generic fiction/Star wars" - "it's a cartoon, I don't watch cartoons" - "it's for kids" - "it's absurd to say its first season could be better than Strange New Worlds" - "the characters are inferior to the DS9 ones"

There is a surprising amount of resistance, now that the show has gotten critical acknowledgement and gotten part of the fanbase onboard.

There is always resistance. Next Gen & DS9 got a TON. As did Voyager. The pushback sunk Enterprise just as it was hitting it's stride.

For my money, I think the animated NuTrek has exceeded expectations by more than any of the shows, but I'd still rank SNW as tops.

1. SNW1
2. LD2
3. PRO1
4. LD3
-----------
5. DISCO1
6. PIC1
7. LD1
8. DISCO4
-------------
9. PIC2
10. DISCO3
11. DISCO2

YMMV, of course.
 
They would still have to recreate any STO ship using the CGI format for the show.
there are tools to convert 3D assets…I should know, I used some of them! And doing so is still vastly faster and cheaper than designing a ship from scratch.

although I’m still baffled as to why they chose a Centaur as one of the fleet ships
probably because they already had the models…?
Think about it: Prodigy has shown very few new designs so far, even the Dauntless is a (very questionable) reuse of a pre-existing design.
That said, I do think that if they do a voyager-a prominently next season it will be a new design.

So the Weapon can take complete control of Starfleet ships. Except for the one it's on apparently. Why did it allow itself to be taken away from the battlefield?
admiral Janeway removed its influence on holo-Janeway and the kids managed to bypass some of the systems to regain partial control.

The kids drifted aimlessly on a shuttle for a month and then crashed right in San Franciso next to Starfleet Academy without being intercepted by any orbital Starfleet resources?
Yeah, that doesn’t make sense. People who will read the new novel may discover what was the idea.
It was a Starfleet shuttle, with a Starfleet IFF. Given the sheer volume of traffic around Earth, they probably can't prosecute every shuttle.
not monitoring flying vehicles near an important artery? What could ever go wrong?

alliance lacking a single language that everyone would be taught: in the EU, comparable in some (not all) respects to the Federation, this is not the case.
I thought about this as well, but I have to point out that learning at least one other EU language is compulsory at all levels of education in EU countries. I’ll be the first to concede that not all country seem to take this seriously, though: for example in Germany pretty much everyone under 50 seems to speak a very good English, in Italy this is not true at all and good luck finding someone speaking any other language in the UK.

Or appears in an official communication from someone in authority at Paramount.
who has authority is debatable, though. See the numerous occasions something was declared canon and then promptly ignored.
 
I thought about this as well, but I have to point out that learning at least one other EU language is compulsory at all levels of education in EU countries. I’ll be the first to concede that not all country seem to take this seriously, though: for example in Germany pretty much everyone under 50 seems to speak a very good English, in Italy this is not true at all and good luck finding someone speaking any other language in the UK.
Yes, but it's not the same language and there are many languages spoken within the EU. Besides, "learning" a language may be a misnomer: it will be on the curriculum at school, but often this won't be sufficient to actually learn the language to the point you can actually use it (some very simple use maybe, but not near sufficient to communicate in a profesionnal setting or even in a social setting that's beyond the most basic phrases). And as you note, people in countries with languages that are very influential, like English but also French, Spanish etc, will not be very motivated to learn less important languages that they see little use for in their own context. That many countries use dubbing so that only their language is heard in media doesn't help.

Even in my own Belgium, which has 3 official languages, the knowledge of French in the Flemish ("southern Dutch") speaking part is dropping (while English is on the rise) and the knowledge of Flemish in the French speaking part has never been great overall and is not improving (French was the dominant language when Belgium gained independence, so no motivation nor need to learn it). And knowledge of German, the third language because of a small part of Germany that was attached to Belgium post-WW1, is generally limited (though in Flanders, many will more or less understand German because the languages are relatively close).
 
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