Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x17 - "Ghost in the Machine"

[Timofnine]

I have just finished watching this weeks toon. I liked this weeks episode because it had a lot more fun in it than most of the previous episodes. Also, I think that a better format for this series would be fun adventures in standalone episodes so that people can dip in and out of it and not get confused by an overarching storyline which seems to never end, develop or progress; it is just there, looming in the background in a foreboding way. This weeks toon was almost Disney Pixar quality in my opinion, it showed the potential that Prodigy has to be a *really* fun sci fi adventure animation which appeals to a wider audience. They should treat each episode like a ‘mini self contained movie’. I’m not saying that the story arc is bad, just that it should develop quicker so that it can be resolved. There are hopefully a lot more seasons to come so maybe the show will eventually evolve in to having more fun stand alone episodes like this.

It was good to see the crew bonding with scoops of ice cream, they are starting to care about each other even though this scene was also a bit sad because the crew were talking about things that upset them, but sometimes it is good to talk to other people about things that might be playing on your mind.

I think that this is the first holodeck episode that we have had since Voyager. It is lucky that all the crew were good at visual cryptography so that they could find the first clue in Zero’s mystery holoprogram (thanks to Rok). I do not think that Zero could have found this clue by himself because I do not think that Medusans see things like us humanoids. Jankom Pog had a cool holoprogram a bit like Street Fighter but set in Final Fantasy VII Midgar like settings with cool battle music. Murf also had a fun holoprogram where he sings a bit like Vic Fontain but not as well, but I did not think that Mellanoid Slimeworm’s could even talk so Smurf could have been miming. Dal’s pirate ship was the best, especially when the monster attacked.

I did not see the twist coming at the end, I thought that this was a standalone episode so it caught me off guard.

I give this weeks episode 9/10 but mainly because it was animated so well with lots of varied and colourful holodeck locations.

 

[Wouter]

I have just finished watching this weeks toon. I liked this weeks episode because it had a lot more fun in it than most of the previous episodes. Also, I think that a better format for this series would be fun adventures in standalone episodes so that people can dip in and out of it and not get confused by an overarching storyline which seems to never end, develop or progress; it is just there, looming in the background in a foreboding way. This weeks toon was almost Disney Pixar quality in my opinion, it showed the potential that Prodigy has to be a *really* fun sci fi adventure animation which appeals to a wider audience.

Though I don't mind standalone episodes and agree on the quality of this one, I think the overarching storyline is unique to Prodigy (within Star Trek) and one of its great strengths. It's like reading a novel with a well defined plot. And I feel it develops quickly and nicely; look for example how fast they completed Gwyn's redemption arc, within 6 episodes of 22 minutes.

Plus, the overarching storyline is one of the reasons we have great characters (Dal and Gwyn are good in the context of the situation of Tars Lamora and the inherent conflict that brings; that wouldn't happen with a serie that lacks such an overarching plot or does not dare develop it, like happened to some extent with Voyager and the Maquis/Starfleet tension that was quickly dropped). And it is also the reason that those kids can still fly around in their fancy starship, without the adults taking it away from them. The only other way to stop that, would have been to set it in a radically different setting where they couldn't reach Starfleet (due to distance or time).

 

[Timofnine]

Though I don't mind standalone episodes and agree on the quality of this one, I think the overarching storyline is unique to Prodigy (within Star Trek) and one of its great strengths. It's like reading a novel with a well defined plot. And I feel it develops quickly and nicely; look for example how fast they completed Gwyn's redemption arc, within 6 episodes of 22 minutes.

Plus, the overarching storyline is one of the reasons we have great characters (Dal and Gwyn are good in the context of the situation of Tars Lamora and the inherent conflict that brings; that wouldn't happen with a serie that lacks such an overarching plot or does not dare develop it, like happened to some extent with Voyager and the Maquis/Starfleet tension that was quickly dropped). And it is also the reason that those kids can still fly around in their fancy starship, without the adults taking it away from them. The only other way to stop that, would have been to set it in a radically different setting where they couldn't reach Starfleet (due to distance or time).

So do you think that this same story line will last one season or potentially an entire seven? Or would each season be its own unique ‘novel’? For example, season two could be some form of adventure quest to solve an archeological puzzle a bit like ‘Indiana Jones in space’ if they manage to wrap this story up by the end of the season? It could be some kind of fun ‘quest’. Perhaps they find out that Dal is not an augment as we would imagine from previous experience in Star Trek. Dal could be connected to the Preservers or Progenitors in some way and someone may have been trying to recreate them, he might have to research ancient galactic history with his crew. The Progenitors seeded the galaxy with life and this led to all of the Star Trek species that we know of - a common ancestry. The Preservers collected endangered races to protect them, I *think* that they were friends with the Progenitors, but I could be wrong. We know that Dal is made up from lots of species from all around our galaxy, so perhaps he is the result of a ‘Jurassic Park’ type experiment rather than anything sinister? Dal could be someone’s attempt at a Progenitor and/or Preserver hybrid which all species in our galaxy are descended from? A geneticist could have been trying to reverse engineer all species back in to one species, a common ancestor ‘hybrid’. Dal could be some kind of key, someone might have been trying to put all the DNA from around the galaxy back together to solve a galactic puzzle like in the TNG episode ‘The Chase’.

 

[The Old Mixer]

It shows that other proposed options, like flying the ship into a star, would probably not work either as the construct protects itself (and would probably seize control from the crew to do so).

But it needed HoloJaneway, who needed Dal's command code, to fly the ship. If it could just take control, that wouldn't have been necessary, and it wouldn't need the kids at all.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

Also I'm not invested enough to watch the first episodes again to find this out, but how did Dal get a command code in the first place? Did Holo Janeway give it to him and then immediately lock herself out of using it?

 

[AnimationAdmiral]

Also I'm not invested enough to watch the first episodes again to find this out, but how did Dal get a command code in the first place? Did Holo Janeway give it to him and then immediately lock herself out of using it?

Presumably the same way every other captain or acting captain who has ever flown a Starfleet ship.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

Presumably the same way every other captain or acting captain who has ever flown a Starfleet ship.

From... the other crew also on board? Via subspace orders from the admiralty? Is there a Starfleet subroutine that says if specifically Chakotay is missing that it's kosher to give his ship to whomever?

The only real way Dal would have to get a command code is if Holo Janeway gave it to him herself, and if that's the case then why the deception vis a vis returning to and infecting Starfleet? Just, like, do it.

Sometimes I think Star Trek just doesn't make sense.

 

[jackoverfull]

So do you think that this same story line will last one season

that’s pretty much a given, since there are only a few episodes left this season.

or potentially an entire seven?

possibly, but I suspect not.

Also I'm not invested enough to watch the first episodes again to find this out, but how did Dal get a command code in the first place?

I was wondering the same. He’s not really a Starfleet captain, so he should have no codes. HOWEVER they could have added codes themselves for security reasons after getting their hands on the ship.

 

[Timofnine]

I was wondering the same. He’s not really a Starfleet captain, so he should have no codes. HOWEVER they could have added codes themselves for security reasons after getting their hands on the ship.

Wouldn’t he need to know the command codes in order to add them or remove the old command codes? If you think of a simple computer security system, you can not remove a level of authentication by adding your own ‘code’ on top of an existing ‘code’? You would need to know the original code to make a new code, a bit like changing your laptop password. Alternatively maybe someone forgot to turn the Protostar command codes on, Dal might simply have looked in to the ships LCARS database settings and found the security system, changing the command code because he could? Or perhaps he is a hacker.

 

[Wouter]

So do you think that this same story line will last one season or potentially an entire seven? Or would each season be its own unique ‘novel’? For example, season two could be some form of adventure quest to solve an archeological puzzle a bit like ‘Indiana Jones in space’ if they manage to wrap this story up by the end of the season? It could be some kind of fun ‘quest’. Perhaps they find out that Dal is not an augment as we would imagine from previous experience in Star Trek. Dal could be connected to the Preservers or Progenitors in some way and someone may have been trying to recreate them, he might have to research ancient galactic history with his crew.

I doubt it would be for 7 seasons, presently they only have orders for 2 seasons (40 episodes, and they plan in blocks of 10 episodes). But those 2 seasons have been mapped out and almost all episodes are already in various states of development (as is necessary due to the lead time in animation). Based on what was said in various interviews, it seems that the (probable) reunion between Chakotay and Janeway is something for season 2, so I would guess that the story of the Vau N'akat will continue into season 2 (even if only because Chakotay is stuck on future Solum, unlikely to make it out of there without involvement of our Protogies), or at least the first block of 10 episodes of that season.

However, there will probably be a form of resolution in the season finale of S1. At least, VA Janeway will no longer be chasing the Protostar, and it's possible the Living Construct will de "defused" partially or completely (but in the later case, some new development will compel them to not go the Federation). I also expect significant plot development for Ascencia and/or the Diviner, so the present status quo will not continue in S2. I do think they will not be able to join Starfleet just yet though, and at this time I consider it likely they will continue on the Protostar as they are now (though maybe with VA Janeway joining them for Chakotay).

I guess that part of S2 may also be dedicated to Dal, his background and the difficulties he would probably face once they are finally in a position to apply for Starfleet (maybe in episodes 31-40 - but this could also be planned for later seasons).

If the show runs for (much) longer, it could well morph into their take on a Starfleet Academy show.

With the 98 other agents of The Order, the missing Tellarite sleeper ships, Rok's shady background etc, they have also sown sufficient seeds to continue the story in future seasons, should they get those.

But it needed HoloJaneway, who needed Dal's command code, to fly the ship. If it could just take control, that wouldn't have been necessary, and it wouldn't need the kids at all.

Touché! Though maybe, it needed the code primarily to lock the teens out of the system, rather than to gain the needed access itself. And it could probably still do nasty stuff, like affecting the environmental controls (in the same way random systems at CR-721 went haywire) to pump poisonous or intoxicating gas, if it really needed to stop the crew and taking direct control was not possible.

I was wondering the same. He’s not really a Starfleet captain, so he should have no codes. HOWEVER they could have added codes themselves for security reasons after getting their hands on the ship.

He already had codes installed at the point the Romulans got into the ship; it seems to be the equivalent of car keys. Given that the Protostar accepted commands from all of the teens when they first got into it (and Gwyn could easily give herself access in Dream Catcher), I think the command codes were not defined and Dal simply choose a code himself, defined who has which rights and entered it in the computer. Taking into account that systems were thoroughly hacked by "The Order", the computer isn't exactly in normal Starfleet spec. Zero or Gwyn could probably have done the same, but Dal was apparently the one who actually did it. This may have been done when before they buried the Protostar in the snow/ice, as they wouldn't want anyone else to activate it by mistake.

It's possible that (some of) the others also have command codes, but the behaviour of the Tal Shiar suggests it was specifically Dal. Maybe he is the only one who can lock (and after that unlock) the entire sytem, which is what the construct did.

 

[jackoverfull]

Wouldn’t he need to know the command codes in order to add them or remove the old command codes?

maybe? Keep also in mind that the Protostar have been hacked, perhaps the original codes no longer exist.

If you think of a simple computer security system, you can not remove a level of authentication by adding your own ‘code’ on top of an existing ‘code’?

even on a today’s computer nothing prevents you from adding additional security measures on top of the preexisting ones. You might easily add a password requirement to a document, for example.

 

[Timofnine]

It's possible that (some of) the others also have command codes, but the behaviour of the Tal Shiar suggests it was specifically Dal. Maybe he is the only one who can lock (and after that unlock) the entire sytem, which is what the construct did.

So Dal has the command codes, the living construct has the command codes. Dal is a genetic ‘living construct’ and the big bad in this episode is called the living construct. Is it an unintentional analogy? Also, how would anyone else have the command codes if Dal set them himself?

Surely Dal can use the command codes to remove the living construct by setting an auto destruct sequence on the Protostar. Dal would sadly loose his ship and because he is not Starfleet, he would not be given the Protostar A, somebody else is probably already the Captain of that anyway.

I’m not sure how he would get around the galaxy without a starship though, and it would mean losing the Hologram Janeway too. But we have the real Janeway now and the Dauntless.

I would miss the Protostar, does anybody know where I can buy a model. I do not think that there is one now that Eaglemoss are gone.

 

[Wouter]

So Dal has the command codes, the living construct has the command codes. Dal is a genetic ‘living construct’ and the big bad in this episode is called the living construct. Is it an unintentional analogy? Also, how would anyone else have the command codes if Dal set them himself?

Surely Dal can use the command codes to remove the living construct by setting an auto destruct sequence on the Protostar.

I think the construct would fight an auto destruct sequence with all the means it has, not sure such an attempt would succeed (and probably not without casualties on the side of the crew which is setting the auto destruct).

As for the command codes, I think usually the first officer (and other prominent officers) have their own codes, though probably with somewhat less permissions than the captain has. So it's possible there are "lesser" codes in use by the others.

Dal indeed seems to be a 'living construct' of sorts, hadn't thought about that possible analogy before. We'll see if the writers may make that link, or not.

 

[Timofnine]

I think the construct would fight an auto destruct sequence with all the means it has, not sure such an attempt would succeed (and probably not without casualties on the side of the crew which is setting the auto destruct).

As for the command codes, I think usually the first officer (and other prominent officers) have their own codes, though probably with somewhat less permissions than the captain has. So it's possible there are "lesser" codes in use by the others.

Dal indeed seems to be a 'living construct' of sorts, hadn't thought about that possible analogy before. We'll see if the writers may make that link, or not.

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I think that Dal needs to do the right thing somehow and destroy his ship if this living construct thing can not be removed. He could drop his crew off with Captain Janeway where they are *all* safe and then steal the Protostar again like Kirk did when he stole the Enterprise. Dal could then fly the Protostar in to a supernova if he cannot safely set the auto destruct with his command code.

 

[Timofnine]

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I think that Dal needs to do the right thing somehow and destroy his ship if this living construct thing can not be removed. He could drop his crew off with Captain Janeway where they are *all* safe and then steal the Protostar again like Kirk did when he stole the Enterprise. Dal could then fly the Protostar in to a supernova if he cannot safely set the auto destruct with his command code.

Actually, NO!!!!!! Keep the construct AWAY from supernovas.

Do not do this!!!! It might destroy Romulus! I forgot about that.

Auto destruct could be fine though if it is in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Akiraprise]

7/10

Weakest episode we've had in many weeks. I despise holodeck gone awry episodes so that is an automatic point deduction for me every time. When has the crew even had time to go into the holodeck to mess around? As soon as Dal gave Holo-Janeway his command codes I knew she was a trojan horse, unwittingly. Just confused as to why it took so long for the weapon to utilize her in this fashion. Felt like a filler episode. Hopefully next week picks up.

 

[Deks]

Also I'm not invested enough to watch the first episodes again to find this out, but how did Dal get a command code in the first place? Did Holo Janeway give it to him and then immediately lock herself out of using it?

This is what I was wondering too ever since the show started in the back of my head.
It didn't make sense that Dal and the kids could just use the ship right off the bat... but, we have figured out early in the show's run that the Protostar was compromised way before the kids found it... aka, the Vau'N'AKat have already gotten into its systems and integrated their living construct into it.

Dreadnok also had Chakotay's access codes.

Gwyn was also able to reprogram the Protostar with relative ease in episode 4.

What I suspect may have happened is that when the ship was initially hacked, it was partly left 'open' in terms of command access which gave the kids just enough to generate and input their own codes into the ship.

We've also seen before on live action series that bypassing command codes is possible with removal of some isolinear chips. Quark did it on DS9, and I think we have examples of this in VOY too (its possible Jankom Pog managed to find an isolinear circuit responsible for the command codes and remove and reprogram it).

The Vau'N'AKat did something similar and the living construct compromised the ship's systems extensively in some way or another like we've seen happened with holo - Janeway (from the very start when she saw Chakotay's holo recording of which she lost her memory she accused Dreadnok of being responsible for her memory loss - and Dreadnok said 'not quite').

It wouldn't be a stretch to think that Vau'N'AKat tampering might have corrupted more than holo-Janeway... it probably affected standard ship operations and provided an 'opening' for the kids to use the ship and then reprogram command codes.

 

[AnimationAdmiral]

From... the other crew also on board? Via subspace orders from the admiralty? Is there a Starfleet subroutine that says if specifically Chakotay is missing that it's kosher to give his ship to whomever?.

There have been emergency occasions in Star Trek where civilians or trainees had to fly the ship when the crew was lost or dead — and they could do so.

More than likely, upon seizing the ship it was jailbroken by the Vau N’akat, Janeway was reprogrammed to assist and transfer command codes to whoever claimed to be the captain — originally intended to be a member of The Order. The one thing they weren’t anticipating was Chakotay launching it prematurely with no Vau N’Akat crew aboard to pilot it and control/use the weapon as intended.

As seen in “Preludes”, The Vau N’akat spent a considerable amount of time reworking the ship and jail breaking it. The one thing they weren’t anticipating was someone launching it without a pilot / weapons handler. Clearly, the weapon needs an “operator” to fully trigger, seen at first when Barniss Frex accidentally activated it in “Asylum” and later when it tried to hijack Janeway’s sentience as a workaround.

I’d imagine this is a fail safe to control the Living Construct, sort of like installing the three Laws of Robotics in Asimov to prevent them from going rogue.

Surely Dal can use the command codes to remove the living construct by setting an auto destruct sequence on the Protostar.

I’m not sure it would be so easy. As seen in the TNG episode “Brothers”, Data used Captain Picard’s command codes to assume control of the ship, and lock Captain Picard out of using said codes to resume command.

 

[Timofnine]

I’m not sure it would be so easy. As seen in the TNG episode “Brothers”, Data used Captain Picard’s command codes to assume control of the ship, and lock Captain Picard out of using said codes to resume command.

This event happened in the past, the 2360’s I think with the Enterprise having less advanced security features and procedures. Surely Starfleet security improved how command codes are distributed and shared in the preceding time before this weeks episode. Is Dal locked out of *full* access of the ship with only low level command codes or does he have full command access thus full control of the Protostar as a standard Captain of a Starfleet vessel would? Does the living construct have more control of the ship than Dal, thus making this device the true captain of the ship? We will never know unless Dal takes the Protostar somewhere remote and away from civilisation (in particular a way from the Romulan sun) and tries to initiate auto destruct in order to save the Federation and the Romulans. Dal does not need to die in the explosion he can use an escape pod or get beamed out just in time. The living construct can not just stay on the ship forever, someone needs to get rid of it and I think that Dal should as he is the Captain. There are plenty of places in the galaxy where he could take the ship if the explosion was going to be big…. Just out of the way of any planets with life on. The explosion would probably only be big though if it was in a sun like with a trilithium device.

 

[jackoverfull]

I think that Dal needs to do the right thing somehow and destroy his ship if this living construct thing can not be removed.

I wouldn’t assume that blowing up the ship would destroy this nasty piece of future technology, though.

This event happened in the past, the 2360’s I think with the Enterprise having less advanced security features and procedures. Surely Starfleet security improved

ah! By the 70s the captain could activate the self-destruct with no second authorisation or codes! By the 25th century a retired admiral could blow up someone else’s ship all on his own!

By the way, I wonder what the original purpose of the construct was and how come it’s so advanced. In the flashback last week it’s referred as “the last of our constructs”, implying there used to be more.