Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x08 - "Surrender"

[Guy Gardener]

I suggest you go back and rewatch the episode and focus on the part where Data is chewing out the changelings and villains on the ship.

1) The dialogue is hilarious

2) it's very much an evolved version of Data with Lore's Flair for the dramatic.

3) THE NEXT DAMN SCENE is Data explaining how he's no longer just Data bit an amalgam of all three and why he no longer has any interest in death.



We know they sent out 100 into the wider galaxy and only 3 would return by the opening of the Dominion War. Presumably Section 31 captured about ten of them to begin the experiments.

Not all the changelings presumably accepted the humilitation of the War Ending, as at the end of the day it was a humiliation for The Dominion in their own eyes and would break away. It's obvious that Vadic, and whoever's fully in charge of these Changelings is another agent within all of this.

Everyone got a bit obsessed with the ten shown on screen in the S31 experiments and forget a few episodes earlier where it's shown the infiltration runs to the hundreds at every level you can think of.

Interesting thing to note. We've only seen Evolved/Conspiracy Changelings adopt bipedal forms, we've not seen them be bulkheads, space squids, or anything not a human shape. Suggesting their mophogenic matrix has been effectively fixed into such a way as a compromise at beating all the scans necessary to truly blend in.

Quite the horrific thing to have done.



This was covered in like... Episode Two. Go back and watch it, they say it doesn't match any known Fed Database, and when they scan it a few minutes later it has a smorgasboard of weaponry from the Greatest Hits of Star Trek, including some the Klingons and Federation banned between them because of how horrible they are.

Weapons don't matter.

It's about shields.

Who can take more shots.

Any one of those super weapons could rip through the Titans shields in one shot, unless they Riker or Shaw got clever.

How many shots would it have taken the Titan to break the Shrike's shields?

10?

20?

The Titan can fire 20 full strength phaser volleys in half a second.

Whoever was writing this season has never seen Star Trek before.

 

[jaime]

Shields are down so they can beam their boarding party out (with Jack) and the ship is captured, and therefore no longer seen as a threat.
I guess.
Because pretty sure I nodded off or something and missed the actual destruction of the shrike.
(That probably had maybe three slightly thick changelings left. They don’t seem like smart cookies — are we sure they aren’t just weird bird things powered by Vadics goo?)

 

[cooleddie74]

Not gonna lie, if this was it for Vadic I expected better.

Amanda Plummer made the most out of what she was given but this did not feel like a satisfying character arc for her. At least wait until the series finale for the grandiose fate.

 

[jaime]

I suggest you go back and rewatch the episode and focus on the part where Data is chewing out the changelings and villains on the ship.

1) The dialogue is hilarious

2) it's very much an evolved version of Data with Lore's Flair for the dramatic.

3) THE NEXT DAMN SCENE is Data explaining how he's no longer just Data bit an amalgam of all three and why he no longer has any interest in death.



We know they sent out 100 into the wider galaxy and only 3 would return by the opening of the Dominion War. Presumably Section 31 captured about ten of them to begin the experiments.

Not all the changelings presumably accepted the humilitation of the War Ending, as at the end of the day it was a humiliation for The Dominion in their own eyes and would break away. It's obvious that Vadic, and whoever's fully in charge of these Changelings is another agent within all of this.

Everyone got a bit obsessed with the ten shown on screen in the S31 experiments and forget a few episodes earlier where it's shown the infiltration runs to the hundreds at every level you can think of.

Interesting thing to note. We've only seen Evolved/Conspiracy Changelings adopt bipedal forms, we've not seen them be bulkheads, space squids, or anything not a human shape. Suggesting their mophogenic matrix has been effectively fixed into such a way as a compromise at beating all the scans necessary to truly blend in.

Quite the horrific thing to have done.



This was covered in like... Episode Two. Go back and watch it, they say it doesn't match any known Fed Database, and when they scan it a few minutes later it has a smorgasboard of weaponry from the Greatest Hits of Star Trek, including some the Klingons and Federation banned between them because of how horrible they are.

Rather than being liquid, these ones are basically a bag of organs in a gelatinous shape that can fit through gaps.

 

[ED-209]

I normally hate swearing in Trek but Vadiks “fucking solids” was awesome, think it was in the delivery.

 

[cooleddie74]

She did sell that. Amanda was a tour de force in the role. I just wish she had made it to the end of the season.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Rather than being liquid, these ones are basically a bag of organs in a gelatinous shape that can fit through gaps.

So cats.

 

[cooleddie74]

Or the Suliban after a night of getting really hammered.

 

[Racefuel]

This is the way

 

[jaime]

I'm not a troll or alt account or whatever. I just love good storytelling. They've had 8 episodes now and we've literally gotten nowhere.

Really though?
Outside of ‘what *really* is Jack Crusher’ and ‘what are they up to for federation day, and why does it involve Picards body’ the show has always answered its questions within an episode or two. In fact both of those questions are not the same questions we started the season with, and one of them is in part and answer to earlier questions. (Why is Starfleet being infiltrated and by whom? Why is everyone chasing down Beverly’s kid?)
Once you then throw in the smaller stories (‘why is the nebula weird?’ ‘What’s the deal at Daystrom?’ ‘Why did someone steal a weapon?and who, and why?’ ‘Who is Raffi’s handler?’ ‘Who put Worf on this job?’ ‘Who is Vadic?’ ‘Why the changelings?’) and other bits (Here’s how Data came back. Here’s where people have moved on and how they come back together’) then you have a multitude of stories, all part of one story, being set up and resolved as we go.
It’s layered, and themed, and some stuff you don’t find out til the end. Which we aren’t at yet.

To have gotten nowhere, would mean Picard (the central character) would still be tooling about wondering why Beverly sent the message, whilst sipping some wine and helping Laris pack her drawers for her trip.

 

[jaime]

Or the Suliban after a night of getting really hammered.

The suliban thing is very interesting, all things considered. History repeats.

 

[Racefuel]

The suliban thing is very interesting, all things considered. History repeats.

The Suliban and Xindi were both interesting factions/story arcs.

I think perhaps the Xindi Arc would have been better serves being the Romulan War..but it wasn't bad per say

 

[vulcancicada]

She did sell that. Amanda was a tour de force in the role. I just wish she had made it to the end of the season.

Amanda Plummer is amazing. Me too.

A great episode. I loved seeing Data fight his 'demons' and become alive in a new way. Annoying cliffhanger as usual but much, much better written than previous episodes. Tighter on plot and movement as well. I really enjoyed that one. I have no complaints and I was fanwanked af by seeing them all around the conference table at the end and I don't even care.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Really though?
Outside of ‘what *really* is Jack Crusher’ and ‘what are they up to for federation day, and why does it involve Picards body’ the show has always answered its questions within an episode or two. In fact both of those questions are not the same questions we started the season with, and one of them is in part and answer to earlier questions. (Why is Starfleet being infiltrated and by whom? Why is everyone chasing down Beverly’s kid?)
Once you then throw in the smaller stories (‘why is the nebula weird?’ ‘What’s the deal at Daystrom?’ ‘Why did someone steal a weapon?and who, and why?’ ‘Who is Raffi’s handler?’ ‘Who put Worf on this job?’ ‘Who is Vadic?’ ‘Why the changelings?’) and other bits (Here’s how Data came back. Here’s where people have moved on and how they come back together’) then you have a multitude of stories, all part of one story, being set up and resolved as we go.
It’s layered, and themed, and some stuff you don’t find out til the end. Which we aren’t at yet.

To have gotten nowhere, would mean Picard (the central character) would still be tooling about wondering why Beverly sent the message, whilst sipping some wine and helping Laris pack her drawers for her trip.

I keep forgetting Beverly ever sent that message. Worse still I forgot about Laris. I can't wait for the final scene where Picard tries to explain that Romulan three-way deal to Beverly

 

[cooleddie74]

Four-way.

The Ghost Candle will be coming back.

 

[jaime]

Jack Crusher starring in Star Trek: My Two Dads.

 

[Racefuel]

I keep forgetting Beverly ever sent that message. Worse still I forgot about Laris. I can't wait for the final scene where Picard tries to explain that Romulan three-way deal to Beverly

TBH I don't think Picard has any lingering feelings for Beverly beyond justifiable resentment still.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Really though?
Outside of ‘what *really* is Jack Crusher’ and ‘what are they up to for federation day, and why does it involve Picards body’ the show has always answered its questions within an episode or two. In fact both of those questions are not the same questions we started the season with, and one of them is in part and answer to earlier questions. (Why is Starfleet being infiltrated and by whom? Why is everyone chasing down Beverly’s kid?)
Once you then throw in the smaller stories (‘why is the nebula weird?’ ‘What’s the deal at Daystrom?’ ‘Why did someone steal a weapon?and who, and why?’ ‘Who is Raffi’s handler?’ ‘Who put Worf on this job?’ ‘Who is Vadic?’ ‘Why the changelings?’) and other bits (Here’s how Data came back. Here’s where people have moved on and how they come back together’) then you have a multitude of stories, all part of one story, being set up and resolved as we go.
It’s layered, and themed, and some stuff you don’t find out til the end. Which we aren’t at yet.

To have gotten nowhere, would mean Picard (the central character) would still be tooling about wondering why Beverly sent the message, whilst sipping some wine and helping Laris pack her drawers for her trip.

You’re giving a wind-up merchant more time and effort than they deserve. Just ignore. Not worth it. Nothing intelligent to say and yet still they say it at length.

 

[Deks]

Weren't they more Bicep bands then wrist bands?

I don't remember them ever wearing those devices on their wrist.

Yeah, bicep bands.
But basically same principles.
And personal shield emitters were mentioned in DS9, just never seen used.

 

[edschen]

blunt

"I was gonna report back to my hand until I got high.
I was gonna take the Titan to school, but then I got high.
Now I'm just debris in space, and I know why (why man?)

'Cause I got high.
Because I got high
Because I got high"