Nothing wrong with that... I know it's not fair to ask for a Gul Dukat arc in 9 episodes, but I guess I'd like to have something consistently built up throughout the season at least.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x08 - "Surrender"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I give this show a 9 I really liked how the scenes with Data and Lore were done. It was nice to see the crew fight back against Vadic and the Changelings. After some of the changelings hunted down and killed the Titan crew members .I'm glad we got to see Riker and Deanna again and their scenes were fantastic. I t was nice to see Worf rescues them from the Shrike.I liked that Jack outsmarted Vadic and she gets she deserves. I certainly wasn't expecting that. But I'm glad to see she was stopped from carrying out her plans for Jack. I hope we'll finally find out what the big giant head is and who they are and wanted Vadic to carry out their plans.
This was an incredibly tense episode, I found, but I was very moved, ultimately, in how it wrapped up. I was getting a bit weary of Vadic, so I'm happy that her character has been disposed of, and while the mystery around Jack is being stretched and teased beyond enjoyment, at least it seems next episode will reveal answers.
The Data/Lore sequences were wonderful and emotional in all the best ways, Data exhibited so much compassion for his loathsome brother.
I loved the Riker/Troi scenes, both the frank discussion over grief and the moments of levity. This is how difficult conversations can flow between two people who's been involved for many years - with some honest admissions and a joke to soften its landing. I like that they discuss how Nepenthe was a home selected only to care for Thaddeus and not a choice they would have made otherwise, leading them to reassess, as a couple, what the next home will be for them.
The Data/Lore sequences were wonderful and emotional in all the best ways, Data exhibited so much compassion for his loathsome brother.
I loved the Riker/Troi scenes, both the frank discussion over grief and the moments of levity. This is how difficult conversations can flow between two people who's been involved for many years - with some honest admissions and a joke to soften its landing. I like that they discuss how Nepenthe was a home selected only to care for Thaddeus and not a choice they would have made otherwise, leading them to reassess, as a couple, what the next home will be for them.
X-files and Lost really worked those angles.
Vadic is dead. Good riddance. Should have been gone after the fourth episode after that impactful end.
At the same time, what happens to the Face? Theories about the Face aside, they built this character up as being only able to talk to Vadic. Instead of talking to series of Changelings within this splinter group specifically. If the Vadic of the past few episodes was a Changeling mimicking Vadic, on a duplicate of the Shrike, it would make sense. This is a plothole, though I don’t know how big. Depends on the final two episodes
So, Shaw is so damaged as a person that he couldn’t step up to offer his life for the crew? Damn.
Shame T’Veen died. I knew they weren’t going to kill Esmar (the nonbinary character) or Shaw or Seven. That only left a bunch of nameless officers, plus Mura and T’Veen. I thought she would have survived the season and been in the Titan spinoff. And unless she has a copy of herself in the transporter buffer or a twin sister, we won’t see her again.
While they won’t touch on Worf & Jadzia, they at least touched on Worf & Troi. That did deserve some sort of followup.
I’m not bothered at how they handled Data. Some think they should have left it alone. I think it’s okay, since Data in the flesh was only teased in FC, and not actually done before.
It was great to see the TNG reunion happen. And Spot.
So what exactly is the goal with capturing Jack? Cause a mass suicide on Frontier Day with his abilities? Or mass control? Or divide the Federation into two factions, with a faction controled by the Changelings?
At the same time, what happens to the Face? Theories about the Face aside, they built this character up as being only able to talk to Vadic. Instead of talking to series of Changelings within this splinter group specifically. If the Vadic of the past few episodes was a Changeling mimicking Vadic, on a duplicate of the Shrike, it would make sense. This is a plothole, though I don’t know how big. Depends on the final two episodes
So, Shaw is so damaged as a person that he couldn’t step up to offer his life for the crew? Damn.
Shame T’Veen died. I knew they weren’t going to kill Esmar (the nonbinary character) or Shaw or Seven. That only left a bunch of nameless officers, plus Mura and T’Veen. I thought she would have survived the season and been in the Titan spinoff. And unless she has a copy of herself in the transporter buffer or a twin sister, we won’t see her again.
While they won’t touch on Worf & Jadzia, they at least touched on Worf & Troi. That did deserve some sort of followup.
I’m not bothered at how they handled Data. Some think they should have left it alone. I think it’s okay, since Data in the flesh was only teased in FC, and not actually done before.
It was great to see the TNG reunion happen. And Spot.
So what exactly is the goal with capturing Jack? Cause a mass suicide on Frontier Day with his abilities? Or mass control? Or divide the Federation into two factions, with a faction controled by the Changelings?
The God entity from Star Trek V is the only thing I can think of. The Iconians were never said to be malevolent
Maybe it's Future Guy from ENT.
I mean they were called "demons of air and darkness" and used their gateway technology to conquer worlds.
Iconians were also a race. This feels like one individual entity, and with the way they have kept him a secret, it’s someone we know.
it’s up? I don’t have to drink a third coffee?
I didn’t get that impression. He chewed Seven out for not killing him and Vadic when they were cornered in the turbolift. I expect he’d seen this movie before (or it’s covered in Starfleet training) and he knew the big noble play wouldn’t help, especially with someone as driven by the need to inflict suffering as Vadic.
I’m suddenly remembering something from a political science class in college. A study had been done to see how candidate perceptions were affected by what they were doing when they weren’t talking during debates. The result was that doing anything, visibly scoffing, mildly disapproving, any kind of reaction at all to the other candidate was a net-negative for perception, and the best thing to do was to stand perfectly still and blank-faced.
Vadic, like every bully, craved a reaction. Shaw doing anything would’ve just encouraged her to torture the bridge crew even more to get a rise out of him. And as she well knew he was riddled with survivor’s guilt, he was always going to be the last one she killed no matter what, because anything else would let him die with hope that things would turn around for his crew after.
Vadic's shattered body was made of red dilithium crystals!
Cool.
You remember that opener in Star Trek: Generations, when the champagne bottle smashes against the hull of the Enterprise-B to christen its launch? Well, here's the follow up, as a protoplasmic bottle of chilled rage smashes against the hull of the Shrike to christen its decommission!
Kind of a neat bookend.
Cool.
You remember that opener in Star Trek: Generations, when the champagne bottle smashes against the hull of the Enterprise-B to christen its launch? Well, here's the follow up, as a protoplasmic bottle of chilled rage smashes against the hull of the Shrike to christen its decommission!
Kind of a neat bookend.
Last edited:
A bit disappointing close to the 2nd act. Gave it a 7.
There was a lot of standing around talking. About Jack. About Data. Inside Data/Lore. On the Titan Bridge. In the Shrike's brig. Lots and lots of talking. Including teases about what Jack is and the source of his power, but no new information.
Oh wait, that's the end of Vadic and the Shrike? Kind of anticlimactic. There should've been an epic ship to ship battle that was delayed since the first act. But she and her ship were gone before we knew it.
Worf and Raffi freeing Riker and Troi was way too easy. Just like the Vadic taking over the Titan was too easy. Yeah, the needs of the plot . . . yada yada yada. But it takes you out of the story.
And when Geordi unplugged Lore from the ship saying he couldn't takeover what he wasn't connected to, I could've smacked him. Now you think of it. Lore taking over the ship was the most obvious thing ever.
Seven had a grand gesture of facing the consequences by remaining on the bridge. But all she ended up doing was nothing other than avoiding being sucked out.
Ultimately, this episode didn't move the ball much in terms of what we know. It did close out Vadic and Shrike, but in a fairly unsatisfying way.
I did like Data beat Lore. That was very cool. But it doesn't lift the entire episode.
There was a lot of standing around talking. About Jack. About Data. Inside Data/Lore. On the Titan Bridge. In the Shrike's brig. Lots and lots of talking. Including teases about what Jack is and the source of his power, but no new information.
Oh wait, that's the end of Vadic and the Shrike? Kind of anticlimactic. There should've been an epic ship to ship battle that was delayed since the first act. But she and her ship were gone before we knew it.
Worf and Raffi freeing Riker and Troi was way too easy. Just like the Vadic taking over the Titan was too easy. Yeah, the needs of the plot . . . yada yada yada. But it takes you out of the story.
And when Geordi unplugged Lore from the ship saying he couldn't takeover what he wasn't connected to, I could've smacked him. Now you think of it. Lore taking over the ship was the most obvious thing ever.
Seven had a grand gesture of facing the consequences by remaining on the bridge. But all she ended up doing was nothing other than avoiding being sucked out.
Ultimately, this episode didn't move the ball much in terms of what we know. It did close out Vadic and Shrike, but in a fairly unsatisfying way.
I did like Data beat Lore. That was very cool. But it doesn't lift the entire episode.
To be honest, I think it was super obvious that people were going to die. But you did get the overall tone right.
How many times did Data and Lore take over the Enterprise? Of course Geordi learned...finally. Starfleet Security 
I believe it is setting up the theme for the final act.
As much as I enjoyed the Troi / Riker scenes, the bit where they trashed Nepenthe was rather over the top, and not in any good way. Now that they're moving elsewhere one hopes Kestra - who seemed to love the place - has either left home or will have the home her parents have apparently loathed all along to go back to.
Maybe. But surely Chekov - who of course wasn't in "Space Seed" but since TWoK's writers ignored that let's do the same - should have said something to Terrell about Khan and co when Reliant approached the system. At the absolute least, surely he should have noticed that one of the planets in a known system wasn't there any more. But anyway. Given this is the Picard forum I won't go any further but it's one of the (many) reasons I can't take TWoK anywhere near as seriously as most do. As ever, each to their own.
Another excellent episode with a lot to unpack, a bit predictable at times (especially what happens with data and lore) but still great. 8.
The plan with the shield was excellent, but I’m surprised the changelings died: after all Odo was found in space. Evolution cuts two way I guess.
The plan with the shield was excellent, but I’m surprised the changelings died: after all Odo was found in space. Evolution cuts two way I guess.
That has legit always been one of the major "uh.." moments for me with TWOK..
"Hey didn't this system have six planets? Why are there only 5 and a massive asteroid field now?"
Sadly, I have to agree. Was loving the season. I'm still liking it. But the last two have been mediocre. Disappointing way to close out Vadic and the Shrike. As you mention, there plan didn't really make sense and agreed, they lucked into the solution by finding Data/Lore. Find them wasn't part of the plan.
Vadic really didn't add much other than being a stereotypical melodramatic villain.
Well, let's hope for a return to form for the final two episodes!
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll