Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x07 - "Dominion"

[jackoverfull]

Except for kicking Kruge in the head while saying "I have had enough of you!" and sending him falling into actual lava when he probably could have tried to save him

He DID try to save him, Kruge tried to kill them both.

and said "fine I'll kill you later" to Maltz...who we never saw again, so maybe he did, even though he said "I lied

What?! No.

Picard also killed the Borg Queen in FC instead of trying to save the remains somehow, basically a coup de gras

She was *possibly* incapacitated but still the fulcrum of the hive mind, notice how the drones stop as soon as she dies.

Kirk also *hated* all Klingons for Davids death, to the point where he wanted to see all of them die. Yes, he did have something of a change of heart at the end of the movie, but that was predictable.

So, a character biased for understandable personal reasons such as having fought Klingons all their life and having seen their son die for no reason at the hands of one that manages to overcome their biases and see that racism is wrong?

It's one thing to not abandon advanced AI, it's another altogether to use the experimental, unstable AI to hold the station's inventory and control its security .

Agreed, especially one that defaults to killing without even trying a non lethal alternative.

McCoy with salt vampire.

Kirk with Mitchell.

They had no choice at that point.

Enimnar 7.

Stopping a war?

Kirk is willing to kill. This should shock no one.

Of course he is, but not a prisoner in cold blood. Of course all this stuff with Picard and Crusher could still be a ruse.

Also, I’m surprised all this people bringing up Gary Mitchell when the whole point of leaving him on Delta Vega was having an alternative to kill him while they could.
And by the way, when Kirk killed him his powers were already re-emerging (“too late Jim”, or something like that).

 

[BBC 2 6pm]

I actually think it would have been totally justifiable to kill her. Though they had her captured, she hadn't surrendered and the containment looked a bit unstable. In modern warfare you can totally kill someone in those circumstances. It's like shooting an enemy soldier who is retreating/running away (but hasn't surrendered) in the back -- not exactly glorious, but often a good idea and not morally wrong.

 

[NCC-73515]

Should have had the Aliens sound.

The music had the screeching strings from Conspiracy!

 

[jackoverfull]

I can't believe that. When did Lore ever show any goodness in any of the episodes he's been in? I don't think there's any bit of goodness within him. No redeeming features. There's no reasoning with him. His kindness towards Data in "Descent Parts 1 and 2" wasn't real. He was just using Data for his own ends.

since you brought up descent, he believed in what he was doing there, believed he was helping the drones. As I said, deranged, but not inherently evil.

 

[BBC 2 6pm]

Yeah I thought they ramped up the level of evil for Lore here too. In TNG he was more emotional and mischevious, but didn't seem as pointlessly cruel as he does here.

 

[StewMc]

Yeah I thought they ramped up the level of evil for Lore here too. In TNG he was more emotional and mischevious, but didn't seem as pointlessly cruel as he does here.

Wasn’t he essentially responsible for the deaths of everyone on Omicron Theta in a revenge act? And forced Data to torture Geordi? He more or less killed Noonien Soong too. Seems a bit beyond mischievous to me.

 

[BBC 2 6pm]

Wasn’t he essentially responsible for the deaths of everyone on Omicron Theta in a revenge act? And forced Data to torture Geordi? He more or less killed Noonien Soong too. Seems a bit beyond mischievous to me.

Oh fair I forgot about Geordi! But even then he seemed to have a clear plan/agenda he was doing these things for. Maybe here it just hasn't been revealed yet.

 

[Roald]

I rewatched the episode last night, I enjoyed it even more on a second viewing..! I think some people are too harsh with this one..! Because some of the brilliant bits in are: Geordi's emotional moment with Data (my God, that's acting!), Amanda Plummer's performance as Vadic (incredible), Vadic's backstory and motivation (very strong!) and the 10+ minute music score at the end of the episode is ingenious..! So much to love in this ep..!!!

 

[The Old Mixer]

Borg like reflexes

Were the Borg known for their reflexes? I remember them lurching around like zombie mechanical soldiers.

 

[BBC 2 6pm]

Were the Borg known for their reflexes? I remember them lurching around like zombie mechanical soldiers.

]
Agreed, it was more like Jedi or Jason Bourne.

 

[starburst]

The chip was vaporized with Data in Nemesis.

I know it was from a deleted scene, but Geordi found the emotion chip in Data's quarters when he and Worf were going through Data's things.

Unlike others, I don't agree that the Enterprise-E wasn't involved with the Dominion War. We only had one movie that took place during that timeframe, and even that one has been argued, but let's go with it did. That's one adventure during the two years the war was going on. I'm not going to make assumptions about the Enterprise-E's adventures, because we saw too few of them. They can fill that period up with all kinds of things.

They definitely were, they specifically said they were on diplomatic duties as the people who normally did that were "tied up with Dominion negotiations" - makes sense to send a ship with a famous name and a renowned Captain.

For instance: the Enterprise-E fighting the Hirogen. As soon as I heard Picard talk about that story, I immediately thought, "Why couldn't this have been a Star Trek movie? I would've liked to have seen this one!" Or if things went south with Not-Boothby, a battle between the Enterprise-E and Species 8472, on the Big Screen, in the early-2000s. They could've done all kinds of things and it wouldn't have felt out-of-place. Almost all of it would've been better than what we actually got. We just didn't see it. But that doesn't mean these types of stories couldn't have happened.

I'm going to be honest when he got asked about that at first I wondered if it was a young officer getting names muddled and he was going to say "I think your thinking of Admiral Janeway" - I love that some of Voyagers foe's made it to Federation Space.

The whole trap thing happened so suddenly and the corridor was so dark etc I didn't realise that they were trapping them on the Titan - I thought it was on one of the half-destroyed ships in the Chinktoka graveyard. Thought that was a clever idea, pressurise part of it and pretend they had been hiding out there.

It made sense that it was so dark at this point, they were on emergency power and had set it up to look like there had been damage - or at least I assume, any other corridor since the nebula had been spotless. Vadic would have thought it strange if the ship had been pristine and brightly lit - though outside of the battle scenes upping the brightness a little might have been beneficial.

 

[jaime]

]
Agreed, it was more like Jedi or Jason Bourne.

Jack Burton

 

[jaime]

I know it was from a deleted scene, but Geordi found the emotion chip in Data's quarters when he and Worf were going through Data's things.


They definitely were, they specifically said they were on diplomatic duties as the people who normally did that were "tied up with Dominion negotiations" - makes sense to send a ship with a famous name and a renowned Captain.


I'm going to be honest when he got asked about that at first I wondered if it was a young officer getting names muddled and he was going to say "I think your thinking of Admiral Janeway" - I love that some of Voyagers foe's made it to Federation Space.


It made sense that it was so dark at this point, they were on emergency power and had set it up to look like there had been damage - or at least I assume, any other corridor since the nebula had been spotless. Vadic would have thought it strange if the ship had been pristine and brightly lit - though outside of the battle scenes upping the brightness a little might have been beneficial.

The emotion chip specifically contained additional stuff for Data too (though was bad for Lore) so it’s possible it is or will be a factor. Maybe Geordi could find a Type A to Type D Soong adapter and plug it in to stabilise NuData

 

[Campe]

The emotion chip specifically contained additional stuff for Data too (though was bad for Lore) so it’s possible it is or will be a factor. Maybe Geordi could find a Type A to Type D Soong adapter and plug it in to stabilise NuData

Frikkin android compatibility. That’s why I use Apple robots. It just works!

 

[USS Artorius]

And then allowed them to escape for.... plot reasons. We saw Vadic killing her main torturer and that's enough. Done. Explained. We're seven episodes in. No security, no repercussions. When did said event occur? When did it start? How long ago did Vadic escape? It's such sloppy writing. And it's a pity, because Plummer's performance was great.

This is one of the several gripes I have with episode 7. I respect Plummers performance but the writing falters since Vadic did not explain how she (it) managed to escape from Daystrom in the first place. Given the security measures we saw in Ep 6 I find it doubtful she was able to escape without at least inside help from one starfleet official. You'd think with all the dangerous and risky experiments they were doing on the changelings there would be measures in place to prevent possible escape by the subjects. How many changelings escaped with her? When did she escape? Was it just after the end of the dominion war or the turn of the 25th Century? It seems to be like we feared, not having enough episodes in the series to let it breathe. I didn't like that the episode skipped over Picard telling Jack his plan to "get" Vadic but thats another can of worms. And on a side, it's been said already but why the hell would Geordi keep Data/Lore connected to the ship/computer system when Vadic comes aboard. We still don't know what the hell Jack is so we'll have to wait yet another episode to find that out. Despite these gripes, there was some fantastic character interaction this episode between Beverly and Picard and Geordi and Data/Lore. 6/10

 

[USS Artorius]

It would have been great if Hugh was still alive and helps the TNG crew. If they found a way to temporarily separate the two androids with enough time for Data to help sythesize a modified Borg Individuality Virus. Could even use Borg tech do merge Data and Lores concesness' into a sort of miniature hive mind so they both worked together as one being. In my opinion Data should be strong enough to defeat Lore in his own head. In Season 3 the Data who is revived acts like a frightened child.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

Were the Borg known for their reflexes? I remember them lurching around like zombie mechanical soldiers.

Yeah, though I do find it amusing that there was one Borg in the background when Data tries to escape in 'First Contact' who moved with relatively normal human speed. At about 2:21:

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[Romulan_spy]

I am surprised that this ep has the lowest rating of any episode this season. Maybe it is because this ep felt like a part 1 of a two-parter so it felt more like set up. But I thought it was another solid episode. The Seven-Tuvok scene was really nice. Brent Spiner continues to nail his performance as Data and Lore. The second half of the ep really kicked things into high gear. When Vadic and her henchmen board the Titan, the tension was palpable. The score, cinematography and direction made the hallway scenes intense.

We get some needed backstory for Vadic. We still don't know what is up with Jack's psychic abilities. But I suspect the changelings want Jack because they want to take his special abilities and incorporate them into themselves. It is possible that his psychic abilties would be critical for their plan on Frontier Day.

But the best part of this ep for me was the "you made me better" scene between La Forge and Data/Lore. What great acting by Levat Burton! And Amanda Plummer continues to enjoy her performance as Vadic. It is joy to watch her chew the scenery. I also really appreciated that Picard and Crusher talk about the ethic of developing an anti-changeling weapon. The ethical dilemma was always a big part of TNG.

I will say I am not sure I agree that this story does not fit the TNG cast and should have been a DS9 story. Yes, the Dominion Arc was an integral part of DS9. But the Dominion War was not in a bubble that only affected the DS9 characters, we just only saw the war from their perspective. The Dominion War was a galactic war that would have affected the TNG characters. Insurrection mentions the Ent-E was on diplomatic missions during the Dominion War so we know the TNG characters were part of the Dominion War. The Ent-E probably battled Dominion ships, the TNG cast probably battled Jem'Hadar and changelings, it was just off-screen. So in-universe, this threat by the changelings should matter as much to the TNG characters as the DS9 characters. And we never got to see the Dominion War from the TNG perspective, this season is our chance to see that. Lastly, we saw that Picard and Riker got dragged into it when they tried to rescue Crusher. So they were already "in it". And once they learned of the changeling threat to Starfleet, they could not ignore it. It would be weird and unrealistic for our characters to go "this is a DS9 threat, not a TNG threat, so let's call Bashir, Kira and co and pass the buck to them."

 

[bookworm8571]

Were the Borg known for their reflexes? I remember them lurching around like zombie mechanical soldiers.

Good point, though the Borg Queen is in the head of multiple drones in a similar way and the red eyes are reminiscent of the Borg. Jack’s ability to fight on cue is actually a lot more like cyborg Soji and Dahj in Season One. I actually wondered at some point if Lore or Data was actually communicating with Jack how to fight off the Changelings and all might not be as it seems. Vadik actually does not seem especially hostile when she communicates with Jack. It’s more like she’s talking to a long lost sibling/friend who’s in the dark and whom she’s going to introduce to the Great Link. She’s also afraid of whomever has been giving her orders and who seems to be residing in her hand. That mastermind seems to be some sort of Changeling, though maybe he’s part of the faction without Vadik’s mutation. I’m not sure why Picard has earned their particular animus.

 

[DaveyNY]

I know it was from a deleted scene, but Geordi found the emotion chip in Data's quarters when he and Worf were going through Data's things.

Getting to see deleted scenes is lovely, but they don't count as being part of canon.
As far as the actualy story of NEMESIS goes, the chip is gone for good.

Now if PICARD Season-3 ends up doing a retcon of that, then all bets are off.