Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

[Anduinel]

Wouldn't that have been a second after she arrived in the 1800s?

That would depend on what she arrived with. If it was just the clothes on her back, not much. El-Aurians aren't Q. She might have been very active in the abolitionist and suffragist movements and later Civil Rights. She could have used any knowledge she possessed to push technology forward as well. We just don't know.

Yeah, not seeing a lot of evidence of Guinan having much tech at her disposal - she's defending her bar with a shotgun and a guard dog, and her car doesn't look like it comes with a warp drive.

Question: Does anyone else think the writers have decided to stick a fork in the Chris/Agnes romance?

 

[CerebralCortexan]

First Contact musical cues all over the place and used effectively.

Can I ask where you heard them? I watched the episode and I'm ashamed to say I missed them this goaround.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Question: Does anyone else think the writers have decided to stick a fork in the Chris/Agnes romance?

Probably.

 

[UssGlenn]

I'm not following.

Let's say that the crew does succeed in preventing the divergence and (assuming such a thing is possible) restoring the Federation timeline. Let's also say that Guinan is with them when they do this. Will Guinan all of a sudden remember meeting Picard in the 1800's like she was supposed to?

she should, yes. Now whether or not they will actually point that out in the show is another matter entirely.

 

[Tuskin38]

Yeah, not seeing a lot of evidence of Guinan having much tech at her disposal - she's defending her bar with a shotgun and a guard dog,

Because she's trying to blend in?

 

[fireproof78]

she should, yes. Now whether or not they will actually point that out in the show is another matter entirely.

Isn't that kind of like "Year of Hell's" resolution?

 

[Jayson1]

Wouldn't that have been a second after she arrived in the 1800s?

That would depend on what she arrived with. If it was just the clothes on her back, not much. El-Aurians aren't Q. She might have been very active in the abolitionist and suffragist movements and later Civil Rights. She could have used any knowledge she possessed to push technology forward as well. We just don't know.

What I mean she had to come in a warp vessel. Her people in 1883 are more advanced than 1883 humans in terms of tech. She could have given humans the cure to all sorts of diseases. Replicators to feed the poor. Even a lift off the planet for those who want to escape the racism and injustice of that time and want to look for a better place to live. She alone could have transformed our entire society much like Quark wanted to when he crashed at Roswell. Yet instead she choose to blend in and at least at first hangout with rich and famous people because I think she wanted to observe our species. Perhaps she even had a hint about our future in her dealings with Q.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What I mean she had to come in a warp vessel. Her people in 1883 are more advanced than 1883 humans in terms of tech. She could have given humans the cure to all sorts of diseases. Replicators to feed the poor. Even a lift off the planet for those who want to escape the racism and injustice of that time and want to look for a better place to live. She alone could have transformed our entire society much like Quark wanted to when he crashed at Roswell. Yet instead she choose to blend in and at least at first hangout with rich and famous people because I think she wanted to observe our species. Perhaps she even had a hint about our future in her dealings with Q.

Again, what did she take with her from this hypothetical Warp vessel? Heck what did she board this hypothetical Warp vessel with? Was she a passenger with all her worldly possessions stored below decks? Was she crew who paid for her passage through work? Did she have a fancy one person ship? Was she marooned on Earth for some reason? All we know is she fled El-Aura to get away form her father. The how is unknown.

What technical and scientific knowledge does Guinan posses? She's a helluva a listener and bartender, but what else? If you were living among a more primitive society what can you bring to the table knowledge wise? Can you build a engine? Do you have a degree in chemistry? What do you know about agriculture? Are you a blacksmith? A wheelwright? Even with a barrel of books can you apply the knowledge in them?

As I previously mentioned, she could very well be involved with both social justice and scientific advancement over the years she's been here. We don't know what her role might have been.

 

[Dukhat]

I don’t believe she was stranded on Earth. If that were the case, she would have asked Picard for help to leave in 1893 if she really felt trapped there. She seemed very much at home on Earth at that time. Does that also mean that she had an easy way to leave if she wanted? Who knows. She certainly had the means to leave in 2024, presumably by means other than human technology.

 

[Nerys Myk]

My read is a low tech, out of the way planet was a good place to hid from her dad.

 

[Llywela]

One thing I didn't get:
Why are all the characters so angry/emotionally invested in the social injustices of present day Earth? It's history for them! They should have some witty snide remarks how awful everything is, and how comparatively better they have it in their time.
Yes, San Francisco in 2024 isn't the greatest place on Earth. But it's by no means the darkest place of humanity, not even in the year 2024 itself.

But just a few moments earlier, they were in a much worse place - a Mirror Universe, where they were commiting public executions and violent murder and suppression of aliens. And they DIDN'T get emotionally affected! Instead - they acted their professional parts, and tried to to their overall job - fix the timeline.

I'm not quite sure what you are complaining about here, because in the episodes I've watched so far this season, the characters have reacted with much the same distaste to what they have seen and experienced in both the Confederation and 2024, and have remained focused on the task at hand throughout - while, yes, doing exactly what you say here they should be doing: commenting on the injustice they see around them, because experiencing it first hand is very different from reading about it in a history book. It may not be the darkest era of human history, but it is the era they are in and it isn't great.

The only person who has actually got involved and tried to help anyone in 2024 was Rios, when he saw the person who had helped him being harrassed by police (and then again when he saw a fellow prisoner being harrassed by police), and that's solid character information that tells us more about who he is. He is also the only one who hasn't had the opportunity of staying on mission, because he was injured on arrival and then got caught up in a chain of unfortunate events. Seven and Raffi haven't got involved or tried to help change anything in any way - they have reacted to what they've seen around them, sure, while remaining on mission, focused in the first instance on trying to locate the Watcher and then later on trying to find and rescue Rios once they knew he was in trouble. Raffi has been hostile and short-tempered toward people she saw as obstructing her, yes, but her attitude isn't about being overly invested in the social injustices of 2024, it's about her grief over losing the boy she'd taken under her wing as a surrogate son and her fear that she is about to lose another good friend, to those social injustices - history has suddenly become very real because she is right there and Rios has fallen foul of it. Seven hasn't been emotional about the social injustice she sees around her, either, but like Raffi she is very agitated that a friend has got caught up in the system and is in danger because of it. Agnes hasn't reacted to 2024 at all, because she hasn't been off the ship yet to see it, and Picard has only been talking about it because he found a disillusioned Guinan about to give up on Earth because of it and needs to talk her into staying because he needs her to complete his mission.

I guess I just don't see what the problem is. It all seems reasonable enough to me.

 

[Jayson1]

Again, what did she take with her from this hypothetical Warp vessel? Heck what did she board this hypothetical Warp vessel with? Was she a passenger with all her worldly possessions stored below decks? Was she crew who paid for her passage through work? Did she have a fancy one person ship? Was she marooned on Earth for some reason? All we know is she fled El-Aura to get away form her father. The how is unknown.

What technical and scientific knowledge does Guinan posses? She's a helluva a listener and bartender, but what else? If you were living among a more primitive society what can you bring to the table knowledge wise? Can you build a engine? Do you have a degree in chemistry? What do you know about agriculture? Are you a blacksmith? A wheelwright? Even with a barrel of books can you apply the knowledge in them?

As I previously mentioned, she could very well be involved with both social justice and scientific advancement over the years she's been here. We don't know what her role might have been.

Well this is not know because we don't know her ship. The assumption though is they must be pretty advanced if she could somehow get from the DQ to earth. Maybe she doesn't know all the science details but in theory should could go recruit others off planet to help in that regard.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well this is not know because we don't know her ship. The assumption though is they must be pretty advanced if she could somehow get from the DQ to earth. Maybe she doesn't know all the science details but in theory should could go recruit others off planet to help in that regard.

A lot of assumptions there.

• That the ship she arrived on was El-Aurian
• That she went straight from El-Aura to Earth
• That she has a way to communicate with other planets
• That she wants to communicate with other planets and reveal her existence to her father

Earth is located in an area of space with a lot of aggressive species nearby: The Klingons, the Romulans, Andorians, Tellerites and even the Vulcans. Chatting them up might not be the best idea, for Earth.

 

[eschaton]

You know, this season of Picard to date has kinda sold me on the idea that having the "Section 31" show (if it ever materializes) take place in the present day and basically be "X-Files in the Trekverse" wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Basically Georgiou heading up a U.S. black ops division that investigates all of the...weirdness...going on, including the apparently commonplace alien visitations and temporal shenanigans.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Doing a rewatch. I think I spotted the McCook vs Mason boxing poster on the exterior wall of 10 Forward.

 

[Jayson1]

A lot of assumptions there.

• That the ship she arrived on was El-Aurian
• That she went straight from El-Aura to Earth
• That she has a way to communicate with other planets
• That she wants to communicate with other planets and reveal her existence to her father

Earth is located in an area of space with a lot of aggressive species nearby: The Klingons, the Romulans, Andorians, Tellerites and even the Vulcans. Chatting them up might not be the best idea, for Earth.

If he episode was better written I feel like they would have addressed these questions. If your going to make Guinan cynical I feel like it takes some setup to sort of explain how she got their. Would have just been easier to go with her daughter and avoid all these questions they don't want to ask or answer or don't feel they have the time to do it. Even Guinan talking to Picard about some personal experiences she faced and what she was feeling back when she came to earth would have covered lots of ground. Or even showing Guinan face some racism. It's like the ICE story. This stuff can be interesting, they just didn't really do it well in this episode. Maybe things will be better next week.

 

[BillJ]

Doing a rewatch. I think I spotted the McCook vs Mason boxing poster on the exterior wall of 10 Forward.

Yup.

 

[Nerys Myk]

If he episode was better written I feel like they would have addressed these questions. If your going to make Guinan cynical I feel like it takes some setup to sort of explain how she got their. Would have just been easier to go with her daughter and avoid all these questions they don't want to ask or answer or don't feel they have the time to do it. Even Guinan talking to Picard about some personal experiences she faced and what she was feeling back when she came to earth would have covered lots of ground. Or even showing Guinan face some racism. It's like the ICE story. This stuff can be interesting, they just didn't really do it well in this episode. Maybe things will be better next week.

Nah, it would have been worse written. People always want to be spoon fed the information they think they need. Shows a lack of imagination on their part.

 

[BillJ]

If your going to make Guinan cynical I feel like it takes some setup to sort of explain how she got their.

Probably made the mistake that their audience was smart enough to figure it out. Boy, we sure showed them!

 

[fireproof78]

Nah, it would have been worse written. People always want to be spoon fed the information they think they need. Shows a lack of imagination on their part.

But imagine how it would go. There could be charts...and graphs!