And once Picard gives his name, she clearly reacts to it.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
And once Picard gives his name, she clearly reacts to it.
Voyager Time and Again.
They find a blowed up planet, go back in time, save the planet, then dissappear as time snaps back, and the first act replays were they find a planet that isn't blown up.
We see Janeway and Paris dissolve.
Jean-Luc McClane
Die Hard With the U.S.S. Vengeance.
6/10
Finally got around to watching this. I won't get into the ICE / Environmental discussion as after 80 pages we've been there done that. I'll just say not much subtlety or nuance to the message they are trying to get across this season is there? 21st century humans are shit. That box is checked. Got it.
This episode was not as good the prior three. The new Guinan was kinda meh. The Seven and Raffi chase was dumb. If Seven wasn't driving like a totally out of character crazy lady they probably wouldn't have even noticed they left with the squad. Plus they gave her the soccer mom pregnant roller skate on wheels to drive. Could have at least given her a sweet looking Charger to rip around in. I also guess we're done worrying about butterflies. The Watcher stuff was kinda cool though. Of course the Borg Queen and Jurati were great. The ship self repairs? That's convenient. Q losing his powers was "unexpected." Need more John DeLancie.
Finally got around to watching this. I won't get into the ICE / Environmental discussion as after 80 pages we've been there done that. I'll just say not much subtlety or nuance to the message they are trying to get across this season is there? 21st century humans are shit. That box is checked. Got it.
This episode was not as good the prior three. The new Guinan was kinda meh. The Seven and Raffi chase was dumb. If Seven wasn't driving like a totally out of character crazy lady they probably wouldn't have even noticed they left with the squad. Plus they gave her the soccer mom pregnant roller skate on wheels to drive. Could have at least given her a sweet looking Charger to rip around in. I also guess we're done worrying about butterflies. The Watcher stuff was kinda cool though. Of course the Borg Queen and Jurati were great. The ship self repairs? That's convenient. Q losing his powers was "unexpected." Need more John DeLancie.
Bon Voyage Monsieur Falcon
Because of his ancestor about to go on the Europa mission.
That's overstating it. She had a sense things weren't right, eg knowing that Tasha shouldn't be alive, but didn't have the details of what happened to her.
TASHA: Guinan, I have to know something. What happens to me in the other time line?
GUINAN: I don't have alternate biographies of the crew. As I said to the captain, it's just a feeling.
TASHA: But there's something more when you look at me, isn't there? I can see it in your eyes, Guinan. We've known each other too long.
GUINAN: We weren't meant to know each other at all. At least, that's what I sense when I look at you. Tasha, you're not supposed to be here.
TASHA: Where am I supposed to be?
GUINAN: Dead.
TASHA: Do you know how?
GUINAN: No. But I do know it was an empty death. A death without purpose.
The Next Generation Transcripts - Yesterday's Enterprise (chakoteya.net)
He says she's an elurian.
She points a rifle at his head, cocks a round into the chamber and says "who the hell are you old man??!!"
Picard never tells her his name.
"so let me see if I got this, you're from some redacted years in the future, but times been altered, so one future is a okay and the other is hell on earth, and you can babble all that, but you can't even tell me your name?"
"if I say more I risk compromising your path."
He doesn’t tell her his name at first, but he absolutely does.
A little later in the episode she reacted to him saying his name, and that’s what led her to acquiesce and bring him to the Watcher.
Picard said:
Guinan said:
Picard said:
Guinan said:
Is anybody else worried about Agnes being left alone with the Borg Queen, especially after Picard warned her to stay away from her? We seem to have a real "Scorpion & The Frog" situation going with the Borg Queen ala Voyager's "Scorpion" episodes. Also, what the heck is wrong with Q?
We don't know that.
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Hey you found one. That's an excellent refutation of my assertion. It's still an outlier, the fact that 29th Century Starfleet has to merge people shows that fading away doesn't usually happen.
Are you?
And it was a poorly thought-out evaluation of what someone in Guinan's situation would have experienced.
It has everything to do with the topic at hand. The experiences Guinan would have and the treatment she would receive in 19th, 20th, and 21st Century America are completely relevant to the question of what kinds of attitudes she would develop after 130 years.
The idea that someone who looks black could live for any appreciable time in the United States between the years of 1893 and 2024 and not have been oppressed on the basis of their apparent racial identity is so outlandish that it beggars belief.
Up till the 2360s, we are "used to" only seeing one little snapshot of her life from nearly five centuries ago prior to meeting any of the Enterprise crew. How can you possibly decide she's "acting out of character" 131 years and 341 years apart from the next two times we've seen her, and with all the history she's witnessed both on Earth and her homeworld in-between 1893 and 2365? I'm not remotely the same person I was ten years ago since some major shit has happened in my life in the meantime, much less 15 times that span.
Are you going to start signing your posts Tuna Salami now? Because that's how ridiculous you're taking the "What iffing?" here. Clearly she did not just recently come back to Earth in the past year or so or else she would not be so fed up by what's going on and wanting to leave so soon after just having invested in a bar. The obvious insinuation is that she's been there long term and is settled in and established. Do you need everything spelled out for you in excruciating detail? There would be no point to her anger and frustration if she had just arrived. It's clearly long term bitterness at the forward advance of basic civil rights and equitable treatment still being met with resistance at every turn 150 years on.
You can't just dismiss that she only "looks African-American" like that's not a huge fucking deal on 19th-21st century Earth. You ever heard of the one-drop rule? You could pass as white, but if you had just one black ancestor you'd still be subject to mistreatment and laws making you a second class citizen. By what metric do you think someone who looks black would not be subject to those same conditions then? It doesn't matter that she's an alien, because she can't very well tell anyone that now can she?
I brought up the example of Frederick Douglass before. He met with authors, performers, abolitionists, suffragettes, politicians, royalty, other diplomats, and was even nominated for Vice President for the Equal Rights Party (that obviously didn't win). If you were to get a brief snapshot of his life at one of those high society parties and naively conclude that was the sum total of his life experience, it would look pretty good. It would also ignore his life as a slave and being separated from his mother as a child and the innumerable acts of bigotry, repression, and paternalism he had to endure until his death.
To assume Guinan faced no oppression for her appearance because we saw her attend one high society party or because she was alien (even though she couldn't say that) is the worst kind of naive or denialist nonsense. She may have been well-to-do for a woman of her time, but she still couldn't vote, own property in certain regions, open her own bank account, line of credit, or business loan without a husband's approval, etc. There were places she could travel to where her high class lifestyle would make envious white bigots want to lynch her. Maybe in the safety of upper class San Francisco she could rely on her name and standing to enjoy a relatively high standard of living, but venture outside of those enclaves and the world was still a very dangerous place for someone who appeared to be a black woman.
Besides all that though, it's rather a moot point since Whoopi Goldberg is a black woman in America, Ito Aghayere is a black woman in America (and Canada), some of the writers behind the shows are black people living in America (and other minorities and white people), so they understandably want to use the scifi medium to comment on the black (and other minority, and women, and the poor, etc.) condition in modern America, as Star Trek has always done. So complaining about it now seems to be ignoring 53 years of precedent.
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Guinan lives her entire Alien life in space being unoppressed.
Top of the food chain.
Her child hood and her starting personality, completely free of persecution.
Then when she gets to Earth, they oppress her because they think she's African American, which is different from being oppressed for being African American.
They don't hate her for who she is on the inside, they hate her for who she isn't on the inside.
Like if some one hated you for being Polish, because (I assume) you look Polish.
That’s true. Didn’t think of that
That's just assumption, isn't it? We've no idea what life on El-Aura is like. Or what planets she's been to. And where she is on the "food chain" in any given location.
What exactly would be the difference to the oppressor that someone is born in El-Aura, Alabama or Ghana? All they see is a black person.
They hate her for what she looks like. For your Polish example, it's what their name is, or what they sound like. But it boils down to the same thing. Color, sex, language, gender, orientation, religion...hate finds a way.
I'm not the mod in this forum, so feel free to disregard, but can we maybe not interrogate each other for our respective racial backgrounds as a determination of worthiness to comment on this topic or not? It's kind of squicky.
I'm betting he's being blocked from using his powers on her by the Supervisors.
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