Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I think people are overthinking this, but nothing stops fascist Kirk and Spock to go back in time and knock out the punk in the 80s. And then classify time travel, of course.
I'm not overthinking it. I'm responding to people who think that the scene implies that the events of TVH happened due to the presence of "bus punk." I recognize it as just an Easter egg, and am arguing that's all we should see it as being.
I keep wondering why Guinan hadn't recognized Picard because of the incident that happened in TNG with Data's head.
I guess its because when Q changed the past, he eradicated UFP and Data never lost his head in the past, so Picard never went back in time.
But, where they are now happened BEFORE the change occurred... so shouldn't technically future with UFP still be possible and allow for that series of events to unfold?
Unless due to how Q changed the past it 'locked up' the UFP timeline we know and now the Confederacy is dead set in stone until the change is corrected, therefore, the possibility of Picard going back in time to meet Guinan in the past never comes to be.
I guess its because when Q changed the past, he eradicated UFP and Data never lost his head in the past, so Picard never went back in time.
But, where they are now happened BEFORE the change occurred... so shouldn't technically future with UFP still be possible and allow for that series of events to unfold?
Unless due to how Q changed the past it 'locked up' the UFP timeline we know and now the Confederacy is dead set in stone until the change is corrected, therefore, the possibility of Picard going back in time to meet Guinan in the past never comes to be.
Maybe but I doubt it plays out anything like this. He kind of reminded me actually of Cupcake from Star Trek 09. Just some dumb lunkhead who has nothing going on other to bully Kirk and even waits 3 years for a chance to call Kirk a cupcake as payback.
Losers like Janeway can't make sense of time travel.
I do fine.
Nothing disappears by paradox in this specific story, because nothing has disappeared by paradox in these episodes, and there have been plenty of paradoxes that could have unmade many events, things or people.
In other stories, people and things do disappear from paradox.
726 episodes and 12 movies of star trek have inconsistent rules.
Any one episode, one should hope, has consistent rules within regards to the rest of the episode.
You could take out the words "time travel" and it would be just as true.
Looking at what we've been told internally, I still think it makes sense. Basically:
- Q made some sort of alteration in time in 2024 which caused the Confederation to come into being.
- This made the Confederation into the default timeline, not an alternate one (Picard explicitly says this in the second episode).
- They traveled back in time a few days before whatever it is that Q does, which means they have a chance still to stop it/reset things to normal if they can intervene.
TO
TOS: Time travel for fun no one cares TNG: Time travel is serious and should be treated serious DS9: Time travel is funny as heck VOY: Anything goes!
True but time travel is teh most obvoius one
TOS: Time travel for fun no one cares TNG: Time travel is serious and should be treated serious DS9: Time travel is funny as heck VOY: Anything goes!
Well now I know that racism & bigotry is bad. I would've never known that had it not been for episode 4 of this dumpster fire.
This episode was terrible. I was optimistic after episodes 1 & 2, but episode 3 hinted at a garbage turn and Episode 4 just confirmed it.
Why does Guinan act like a different character?
The Rios stuff is going nowhere. His relationship with Theresa started off interesting but now it's all about him dealing with ICE.
Also, I can't be the only person who thinks it's kind of screwed up of the writers to write a story where the character played by a white-Chilean actor gets in trouble with immigration. In other words, anyone can be an immigrant to the US, it doesn't have to be someone from a Latin American country or a character played by an actor from a Latin-American country. (My sister in law is an immigrant from Poland.) The fact that the writers chose the character played by a Latin actor, for this part of the story, says more about how the writers view immigrants/Latin-americans more than anything it says about ICE officers.
The writers need to learn subtlety and allegory. People much smarter than me have proved that hitting people in the face with heavy handed social messaging turns people off and makes people double-down on opposing views.
I really wanted to like this season.
This episode was terrible. I was optimistic after episodes 1 & 2, but episode 3 hinted at a garbage turn and Episode 4 just confirmed it.
Why does Guinan act like a different character?
The Rios stuff is going nowhere. His relationship with Theresa started off interesting but now it's all about him dealing with ICE.
Also, I can't be the only person who thinks it's kind of screwed up of the writers to write a story where the character played by a white-Chilean actor gets in trouble with immigration. In other words, anyone can be an immigrant to the US, it doesn't have to be someone from a Latin American country or a character played by an actor from a Latin-American country. (My sister in law is an immigrant from Poland.) The fact that the writers chose the character played by a Latin actor, for this part of the story, says more about how the writers view immigrants/Latin-americans more than anything it says about ICE officers.
The writers need to learn subtlety and allegory. People much smarter than me have proved that hitting people in the face with heavy handed social messaging turns people off and makes people double-down on opposing views.
I really wanted to like this season.
And you haven't even gotten into the Temporal Cold War! Or the mess that is Discovery Season 2!
Me too its star trek, if you dont want that you are watching the wrong show. How many time do I have to bring up the black and white aliens to say that star trek has always done that. Some people are dense
Why? Social commentary is like any other aspect of a movie or show. It can be done well or done badly. Just having something to say doesn't mean what someone says is going to be interesting even if their is truth in what they are saying.
I just found Seson 2 to be boring aside from pike
Some people get mad star trek does it at all, because they are dense
I'm a little let down by how glibly they sort of conflate immigration, the environment, and issues of capitalism in this episode, starting with the updated lyrics of the Bus Punk's song. I feel like all of the threads should be teased out a bit into their own plotlines (I realize standalone episodes are impossible). But nothing they say is unprecedented in Trek...not even Guinan's comments about her skin color versus Picard (DS9 certainly went there in the later seasons).
I don't see how the Confederation would have been able to destroy the whale probe. Their technology is comparable to the UFP, and the probe emitted a dampening field in a large radius which basically made SF ships inoperative.
Unless of course the Confederation used some weapons and technology in the 23rd century the UFP hadn't that could have been effective against the probe (which is possible considering the Confederation wouldn't be restricting certain technologies - or the whale Probe was never dispatched to Earth for whatever reason).
At the very least, the punk on the bus touching his neck was a homage to ST: IV... it seems like he might remember Kirk and Spock, which begs the question why wouldn't Guinan in that case remember Picard from 'A time's arrow'.
Though, its also possible someone else (native to the 80-ies) taught the punk a lesson similar to what Spock originally did, so he still apologized.
I mean, A LOT of things would have happened since the 80-ies to that guy... its been over 30 years... and would he even still be a 'punk' with a boombox on a bus in the 21st century?
Well this is what serialized TV gets you
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