I love the idea that even the Borg have the the occasional Dudebro hanging around.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I love the idea that even the Borg have the the occasional Dudebro hanging around.
The point is that they can pass for human, which means no mechanical parts.
I could be wrong, but wasn't it already established that Soji is indistinguishable from flesh-and-blood human?
You need to take a closer look. Compare the screencap to this:
The screencap shows a brain.
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Clancy presumably tells Crusher to "Fuck off".
Well, I'll be damned. I was sure that's how human head muscles look like... in my defense, high school was more than a decade agoYou need to take a closer look. Compare the screencap to this:
The screencap shows the brain.
A big ol' 9. Not quite the emotional rollercoaster that the Riker episode was, but still I was so happy to see diplomacy win the day. Picard winning Soji around was nicely done.
Riker being back again was a great fist-bump moment! I also love that they brought back the Picard manoeuvre, with a twist, to help delay the Romulan attack was a great call back, with a season so full of them.
I was a little surprised at Picard dying, though not his means of his resurrection as such, being as Soong was working on it in the previous episode. I was definitely thinking Soong would do it himself.
Seeing Data one more time was well done. His conversation with Picard was lovely, and his funeral scene was so much more moving than anything in Nemesis.
Oh bit the dust, thankfully. She wasn't really much of a character, yet Seven murdering her as revenge for Hugh was nice.
EDIT: Narissa, not Oh. Both are dull.
Riker being back again was a great fist-bump moment! I also love that they brought back the Picard manoeuvre, with a twist, to help delay the Romulan attack was a great call back, with a season so full of them.
I was a little surprised at Picard dying, though not his means of his resurrection as such, being as Soong was working on it in the previous episode. I was definitely thinking Soong would do it himself.
Seeing Data one more time was well done. His conversation with Picard was lovely, and his funeral scene was so much more moving than anything in Nemesis.
Oh bit the dust, thankfully. She wasn't really much of a character, yet Seven murdering her as revenge for Hugh was nice.
EDIT: Narissa, not Oh. Both are dull.
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That was Narissa. Oh was with the Romulan fleet.
And the first (and possibly only) season of Picard comes to an end, and there's a lot to think about.
The final episode is unquestionably a mixed bag, as was the whole season, with plenty of loose ends flapping in the breeze, some of them quite surprising. But other aspects of the finale were quite satisfying-- and in some respects also surprising.
As I said at the beginning, I really didn't want them to go the route of the dark and corrupt Federation, but I was grudgingly all right with the way they did it: They didn't present a Federation or a Starfleet that had become entirely Dystopic or criminal, but one that had simply abandoned its high standards for the sake of expediency-- and, as it turns out, as the result being manipulated with fear and loathing. This was not presented as the status quo or as inevitable, but as a failure of vision that drove Picard into isolation. The only thing that could make this thematic development acceptable is for it to be corrected in the end, and that was achieved in this finale. The Synth Ban, emblematic of this dark period, was overturned.
One of the things that makes Trek Trek, of course, are the morality plays, the commentaries on the world we live in, and to that end the moral failure of the Federation parallels modern history. When TOS came on the air, the world was charged with the electricity of change as it never was before-- but the generations that followed abandoned that positivity for negativity, abandoned liberalism for political correctness and identity politics. In classic Trek fashion, Picard tells us that this can be healed. In the same vein, the long and winding plot leads us to a group of androids who are adult in appearance, but are in fact sheltered and naive children, their view of the world shaped-- or misshapen-- by antisocial hermits. Basically, a metaphor for the Millennial Generation, who are defined by the propaganda of social media influencers who profit from conflict. But again, in the person of Soji, we are told that this, too, can be cured by the simple, yet powerful, method of setting a good example.
Which brings us to the curious situation of the title character. Picard begins the series bitter and defeated, yet slowly regains his passion for goodness. He is beset by the obstacles of a hardened Starfleet bureaucracy and the cynicism of broken colleagues, but he carries on, and in the end it is not self-righteousness, but unselfish righteousness that wins the day. But the curious part is what physically becomes of the character. His mind is transplanted into an android body to forestall death-- but the android body is just as elderly and mortal as the dead one he left behind. It is essentially just an elaborate cure for a disease that didn't need to be introduced in the first place. So what was the point? In Sci-Fi terms, or general story terms, this was, perhaps, to make overt his rebirth in an almost messianic way. Picard is reborn, and through him the Federation and the Synths also experience a chance at a new beginning.
The episode itself was certainly not without its flaws. So many threads went nowhere. What was the meaning of the five queens? Of that dream sequence in general? Premonitions really don't belong in Star Trek. Elfwich, as lovable as he is, really had no moment or special story function to justify his existence. The two cool Romulan caretakers just disappeared, despite my expectation that they would pop up at a pivotal moment. So much about Maddox and Soong and their androids remains unexplained-- not the least of which is how they came up with that magic Swiss Army Knife. And how did Oh, after years embedded in Starfleet, suddenly pop up in command of a Romulan armada? Most of all, where the fuck did Admiral Clancy fuck off to?
But there were certainly many great moments, first among them Picard's persuasive diplomatic monologue that changed Soji's heart, pissed off the Romulans, and made Riker smile. And, of course, Riker's sudden appearance in command of his fleet was both impressive and heartwarming. I got a kick, so to speak, out of Rios smuggling in the bomb with his soccer ball-- see, we could have used that Emergency Soccer Hologram after all. And the death of Picard and the mourning of his crew-- all broken people that he patched together-- was almost overwhelming. Poor Elfwich collapsing into Raffi's lap was just too sad.
Another momentous aspect of the episode, of course, was the appearance of Data, before his second and final death, and the final farewell of two old friends and comrades. I do find it unfortunate that the story perpetuated the religious propaganda that it's best to just live your allotted years and then go peacefully into that good night, but this passage, since we know that these actors will not live forever-- and neither will we-- was heartbreakingly bittersweet. And so much better than Nemesis. "How could you think that I would regret giving my life for you?" If that was not a perfect Star Trek moment, I don't know what is.
Then also-- from the sublime to the ridiculous-- we got a glimpse of the Uber-Synths that threatened to annihilate all biological life. I was kind of hoping that they would turn out to be advanced, Organian-like beings who would lecture the Synths and Biologicals alike, but no, they were monsters. Weird, black, mechanical, tenticular monsters. It was like Cthulhu developed an interest in robotics. Kind of cool, actually. But I worry that other writers will turn these guys into the next Borg, and I am so sick of that shit.
Finally, at the end, we came to that classic Star Trek scene of heading off into the final frontier. I don't even know if they said what they planned to do or what their purpose in life is now, I just saw that crew gathered on the bridge, facing front into the unknown. I would have preferred a Starfleet ship, but La Sirena is just fine. The next Next Generation-- Elnor, Jurati, Seven, Raffi, Soji, Rios, and Captain Picard. Definitely a crew I want to follow to their next destination.
The final episode is unquestionably a mixed bag, as was the whole season, with plenty of loose ends flapping in the breeze, some of them quite surprising. But other aspects of the finale were quite satisfying-- and in some respects also surprising.
As I said at the beginning, I really didn't want them to go the route of the dark and corrupt Federation, but I was grudgingly all right with the way they did it: They didn't present a Federation or a Starfleet that had become entirely Dystopic or criminal, but one that had simply abandoned its high standards for the sake of expediency-- and, as it turns out, as the result being manipulated with fear and loathing. This was not presented as the status quo or as inevitable, but as a failure of vision that drove Picard into isolation. The only thing that could make this thematic development acceptable is for it to be corrected in the end, and that was achieved in this finale. The Synth Ban, emblematic of this dark period, was overturned.
One of the things that makes Trek Trek, of course, are the morality plays, the commentaries on the world we live in, and to that end the moral failure of the Federation parallels modern history. When TOS came on the air, the world was charged with the electricity of change as it never was before-- but the generations that followed abandoned that positivity for negativity, abandoned liberalism for political correctness and identity politics. In classic Trek fashion, Picard tells us that this can be healed. In the same vein, the long and winding plot leads us to a group of androids who are adult in appearance, but are in fact sheltered and naive children, their view of the world shaped-- or misshapen-- by antisocial hermits. Basically, a metaphor for the Millennial Generation, who are defined by the propaganda of social media influencers who profit from conflict. But again, in the person of Soji, we are told that this, too, can be cured by the simple, yet powerful, method of setting a good example.
Which brings us to the curious situation of the title character. Picard begins the series bitter and defeated, yet slowly regains his passion for goodness. He is beset by the obstacles of a hardened Starfleet bureaucracy and the cynicism of broken colleagues, but he carries on, and in the end it is not self-righteousness, but unselfish righteousness that wins the day. But the curious part is what physically becomes of the character. His mind is transplanted into an android body to forestall death-- but the android body is just as elderly and mortal as the dead one he left behind. It is essentially just an elaborate cure for a disease that didn't need to be introduced in the first place. So what was the point? In Sci-Fi terms, or general story terms, this was, perhaps, to make overt his rebirth in an almost messianic way. Picard is reborn, and through him the Federation and the Synths also experience a chance at a new beginning.
The episode itself was certainly not without its flaws. So many threads went nowhere. What was the meaning of the five queens? Of that dream sequence in general? Premonitions really don't belong in Star Trek. Elfwich, as lovable as he is, really had no moment or special story function to justify his existence. The two cool Romulan caretakers just disappeared, despite my expectation that they would pop up at a pivotal moment. So much about Maddox and Soong and their androids remains unexplained-- not the least of which is how they came up with that magic Swiss Army Knife. And how did Oh, after years embedded in Starfleet, suddenly pop up in command of a Romulan armada? Most of all, where the fuck did Admiral Clancy fuck off to?
But there were certainly many great moments, first among them Picard's persuasive diplomatic monologue that changed Soji's heart, pissed off the Romulans, and made Riker smile. And, of course, Riker's sudden appearance in command of his fleet was both impressive and heartwarming. I got a kick, so to speak, out of Rios smuggling in the bomb with his soccer ball-- see, we could have used that Emergency Soccer Hologram after all. And the death of Picard and the mourning of his crew-- all broken people that he patched together-- was almost overwhelming. Poor Elfwich collapsing into Raffi's lap was just too sad.
Another momentous aspect of the episode, of course, was the appearance of Data, before his second and final death, and the final farewell of two old friends and comrades. I do find it unfortunate that the story perpetuated the religious propaganda that it's best to just live your allotted years and then go peacefully into that good night, but this passage, since we know that these actors will not live forever-- and neither will we-- was heartbreakingly bittersweet. And so much better than Nemesis. "How could you think that I would regret giving my life for you?" If that was not a perfect Star Trek moment, I don't know what is.
Then also-- from the sublime to the ridiculous-- we got a glimpse of the Uber-Synths that threatened to annihilate all biological life. I was kind of hoping that they would turn out to be advanced, Organian-like beings who would lecture the Synths and Biologicals alike, but no, they were monsters. Weird, black, mechanical, tenticular monsters. It was like Cthulhu developed an interest in robotics. Kind of cool, actually. But I worry that other writers will turn these guys into the next Borg, and I am so sick of that shit.
Finally, at the end, we came to that classic Star Trek scene of heading off into the final frontier. I don't even know if they said what they planned to do or what their purpose in life is now, I just saw that crew gathered on the bridge, facing front into the unknown. I would have preferred a Starfleet ship, but La Sirena is just fine. The next Next Generation-- Elnor, Jurati, Seven, Raffi, Soji, Rios, and Captain Picard. Definitely a crew I want to follow to their next destination.
Nice flair after the face plant.
I liked this episode a lot when I watched it. Then I started thinking about it, and my opinion of it went downhill. Some thoughts:
The good stuff:
Stewart and Spiner were just extraordinary together, as they always were. Giving Data a proper sendoff - as opposed to his pointless demise in the pure, unadulterated cinematic shite that was Nemesis - was brilliant viewing. I'm even prepared to overlook the convenience / contrivance of B-4 being on Copellius in the first place to allow the mind-walk thingy to even happen. It was just so well done, so well acted, so well directed... Everything about it worked for me.
The patented Patrick Stewart Picard Speech was fabulous. I've always thought I'd follow Picard anywhere. This ep reinforced that view all over again.
Seven / Ryan. Supremely awesome. As a dyed in the wool (and completely unapologetic) Voyager fan I've enjoyed the hell out of this Seven, and Ryan's performance was every bit as superb as it was back in the day. Seven killing Narissa - and expressing regret about killing people afterward - was all good.
I like Soji (good of her to wake up to herself, so to speak), and Briones is remarkable. I'm interested to see where they go with the character.
The crap stuff:
Jurati murdered Maddox. In cold blood. And it all (apparently) goes away. She and Rios smooch and everyone flies off into the future as though she didn't murder her ex. Astonishing stuff, and however much she contributed to the triumph of Our Heroes it doesn't alter the fact that she murdered someone and is apparently going to get away without any consequence whatsoever. That really, really doesn't sit well with me.
Oh just gets to fly away with her fleet (wherever the hell it conveniently came from) without any consequence whatsoever? Given everything she knows about the Federation and its workings? Not good enough. Neither was the fact that she and her cronies just gave up and flew away, given her devotion to the anti-synth cause for all those years.
Picard is now an android - sorry, golem. Please. Picard's death was emotional enough but it was quite obvious it wasn't going to stick. I could have lived with Soong and / or the synths coming up with some miracle cure for his condition, but the convenient android body and the equally convenient "we've depowered the body and you'll age and everything just as if you hadn't actually died" was just ridiculous and a complete cop-out.
So where did Narek go, anyway? And how convenient that everyone went from "abusive Romulan boyfriend" to "let's go along with his plan!!" without a qualm. Really?
I'll watch the season again at some point but the more I think about it, the less of a positive impression this finale makes on me. The poor / bad stuff outweighs the good at this point, and that's a bit of a letdown. Oh, well.
The good stuff:
Stewart and Spiner were just extraordinary together, as they always were. Giving Data a proper sendoff - as opposed to his pointless demise in the pure, unadulterated cinematic shite that was Nemesis - was brilliant viewing. I'm even prepared to overlook the convenience / contrivance of B-4 being on Copellius in the first place to allow the mind-walk thingy to even happen. It was just so well done, so well acted, so well directed... Everything about it worked for me.
The patented Patrick Stewart Picard Speech was fabulous. I've always thought I'd follow Picard anywhere. This ep reinforced that view all over again.
Seven / Ryan. Supremely awesome. As a dyed in the wool (and completely unapologetic) Voyager fan I've enjoyed the hell out of this Seven, and Ryan's performance was every bit as superb as it was back in the day. Seven killing Narissa - and expressing regret about killing people afterward - was all good.
I like Soji (good of her to wake up to herself, so to speak), and Briones is remarkable. I'm interested to see where they go with the character.
The crap stuff:
Jurati murdered Maddox. In cold blood. And it all (apparently) goes away. She and Rios smooch and everyone flies off into the future as though she didn't murder her ex. Astonishing stuff, and however much she contributed to the triumph of Our Heroes it doesn't alter the fact that she murdered someone and is apparently going to get away without any consequence whatsoever. That really, really doesn't sit well with me.
Oh just gets to fly away with her fleet (wherever the hell it conveniently came from) without any consequence whatsoever? Given everything she knows about the Federation and its workings? Not good enough. Neither was the fact that she and her cronies just gave up and flew away, given her devotion to the anti-synth cause for all those years.
Picard is now an android - sorry, golem. Please. Picard's death was emotional enough but it was quite obvious it wasn't going to stick. I could have lived with Soong and / or the synths coming up with some miracle cure for his condition, but the convenient android body and the equally convenient "we've depowered the body and you'll age and everything just as if you hadn't actually died" was just ridiculous and a complete cop-out.
So where did Narek go, anyway? And how convenient that everyone went from "abusive Romulan boyfriend" to "let's go along with his plan!!" without a qualm. Really?
I'll watch the season again at some point but the more I think about it, the less of a positive impression this finale makes on me. The poor / bad stuff outweighs the good at this point, and that's a bit of a letdown. Oh, well.
My bad. I'll replace that with Narissa, who was also an uninteresting character.
I was a little surprised that the death pool was relatively empty by the end of the season. I guess Picard started paddling in it, but was soon out again. It must have been too cold.
Not bad, lots of great moments, but what were the metal snake things- wouldn't it have been better to actually make more use of the supposed existential threat, and maybe see whether they'd really be on anybody's side. And yet more sudden flipping between good and evil, or at least just forgetting that anyody other than Soji was meant to be an individual... And now Picard's actually just a copy of himself - it's almost as if they shot two endings before finding out if they were renewed, isn't it... And Data 'died' again- was there a point to that, I ask myself...
I mean, I enjoyed it more than that makes it sound, but jeez it was right down there with Dr Who's finale for making any dramatic sense beyond the fanwank...
No, must hold back, cos I did enjoy it, but it's easier to pick at the negative, you know...
Worth it for Seven and Raffi though. And the final scene.
I mean, I enjoyed it more than that makes it sound, but jeez it was right down there with Dr Who's finale for making any dramatic sense beyond the fanwank...
No, must hold back, cos I did enjoy it, but it's easier to pick at the negative, you know...
Worth it for Seven and Raffi though. And the final scene.
Peeked onto Reddit to see what other people were saying. Someone was blaming Kurtzman for the direction of the episode, even though he didn't direct it. When someone pointed that fact out, he or she proceeded to say the problem with the show comes from the top, which is Kurtzman, even though that's Chabon.
Bitter Trekkies sure love finding one thing to beat their drum about and they don't let up.
Bitter Trekkies sure love finding one thing to beat their drum about and they don't let up.
I see the Covid posts about possible delays but on the ready room with Will Wheton and Pat Stewart they mentioned that Michael Chabon has just finished writing the first 2 episodes so if we assume takes another mabye 2-3 months to finish the scripts wont go into production until July at the earliest. Hopefully the virus will have reduced in severity then.
1. The beam was needed to maintain the opening?
2. The exocomps kinda had a simpler version of this tool decades before.
Sargon's people
McKinley?
I found they were an innovative, creative, and beautiful idea.
Just like after they lost the Vulcan ambassador who was a Romulan spy, or like after SFHQ was infested by neural parasites... they're used to that now XDYes she did. I imagine Starfleet Intelligence is now scrambling to recall every spy, reconfigure every surveillance technique, and change all their passcodes.
The TS was always independent from the government and the military, I thought. And some of those ships might've been drafted by Oh just like Rakal had the authority to command a military warbird.
1. I think it's similar to TFF: They are not that superior and just wanted others to open a gateway so they could come in an attack. The God alien tricked Sybok into bringing it a ship so it could escape its prison. Picard should have said: Excuse me, I'd like to ask a question. What does SuperSynth need with a beacon? XD
2. He clearly said he wants to die. Things only make no sense if you don't pay attention
1. see above, the TS is independent and can draft other ships. Laris and Zhaban were winemakers before and needed a safe place to hide from the TS.
2. Finally a good closure scene that he deserved for 20 years and didn't get in Nemesis.
But they were responsible for the evacuation getting stopped and therefore for millions of their own people's deaths.
It was always a neuron and never a positron.
Maybe thinking about it might help you understand, but just paying attention might do the job: The fleet was destroyed, they didn't have enough ships anymore, and more immediate concerns with public opinion turning towards caring for oneself instead of helping enemies.
Graphic. As in Graphic Interchange Format.
What about Picard as flashy P in the Enterprise computer from Lonely Among Us? XD
Only if there's an unwooden one too. What would that even be - metallic?
Cause she was busy waving her hands around like crazy building the beacon manually step by step. It's the only thing I found really stupid in this episode.
1. He only said "Goodbye" in Nemesis. Not "my friend".
2. We only remember cause we rewatch the shows, Riker only experienced that scene once 20 years ago
It would be particularly painful if it doesn't happen now that we know Bob Picardo and Whoopi Goldberg are probably in it...
Just a note on people being mad that Juratti appears to have got off with no consequences, but didn’t episode 8 itself have her later reveal that Oh had put a block in her to stop her being able to prevent her behaviour whilst under the mind melds influence? Can’t remember the exact dialogue without rewatching it but, at the time, I took it to mean that essentially she didn’t have control over her own decision-making at that time, which means it’s a free pass for her, with regards to the death.
This show has had its entire cast come face to face with their baggage, though, so I find it very unlikely that she will not deal with fallout from this next season.
This show has had its entire cast come face to face with their baggage, though, so I find it very unlikely that she will not deal with fallout from this next season.
That's all well and good, but then they should've stuck with that. Leave him dead instead of in some virtual purgatory that exists solely for him to have one more conversation before getting killed again.
It was less of a "meld" than a psychic assault. Jurati was not okay, or herself. Still, they treated it a little lightly. We'll see how, or if, that plays out.
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1. He only said "Goodbye" in Nemesis. Not "my friend".
2. We only remember cause we rewatch the shows, Riker only experienced that scene once 20 years ago
1. Stupid Mandela Effect!!
2. You think i rewatch EAFP??
I really enjoyed the finale.
A lot to try to tie up, and tying up most.
It was a hopeful ending... Picard being an example for the Synths was fully him again. His death was a good one, and it had some impact. But it kind of lost a lot of the emotion when he awakens in a new synthetic body. It will be interesting to see where this goes, despite his new body being superpowerless.
I'm glad Alton shut down Sutra... she really had it coming. There was something off about her from the start, and Alton saw what happened. That had to really hurt, watching what is basically your child kill another of your children.
I'm glad Riker came in to save the day. At least Picard got to say goodbye to him a final time.
One thing I didn't like, which is prevalent in a LOT of scifi and action these days, is the clutter. Too many ships and things going on at once. It's like the visual guys have A.D.D. I get that battles and scenarios like that are going to be hectic and chaotic, but it was just too cluttered. I had the same issue with the DISCOVERY season 2 finale.
I'm happy to see the motley crew warp off. Quite surprised Seven is sticking around, too... but very happy.
Now, to the biggest part for me. Data.
He got a FAR better sendoff here than NEMESIS, and those scenes were so full of emotion. Brilliantly done by both actors. I was crying. Truly. Watching Data die again was just heartbreaking. He is the reason I became a science fiction, and STAR TREK, fan. His character holds a very special and dear place in my heart... an 8 year old boy watching the TNG premiere in 1987 and just falling in love with the character. His curiousity, his morality, his gentleness... Data can be summed up in one word.
Hero.
Not just a hero in the show, but my personal scifi hero, something I got to tell Brent Spiner when I met him at DragonCon years ago.
So it was quite emotional for me watching that last scene of him as he vanishes. It was like saying goodbye to a huge part of my childhood. If only one thing can be used to justify the existence of STAR TREK: PICARD, it was this.
This has been a great season, and I look forward to the next.
A lot to try to tie up, and tying up most.
It was a hopeful ending... Picard being an example for the Synths was fully him again. His death was a good one, and it had some impact. But it kind of lost a lot of the emotion when he awakens in a new synthetic body. It will be interesting to see where this goes, despite his new body being superpowerless.
I'm glad Alton shut down Sutra... she really had it coming. There was something off about her from the start, and Alton saw what happened. That had to really hurt, watching what is basically your child kill another of your children.
I'm glad Riker came in to save the day. At least Picard got to say goodbye to him a final time.
One thing I didn't like, which is prevalent in a LOT of scifi and action these days, is the clutter. Too many ships and things going on at once. It's like the visual guys have A.D.D. I get that battles and scenarios like that are going to be hectic and chaotic, but it was just too cluttered. I had the same issue with the DISCOVERY season 2 finale.
I'm happy to see the motley crew warp off. Quite surprised Seven is sticking around, too... but very happy.
Now, to the biggest part for me. Data.
He got a FAR better sendoff here than NEMESIS, and those scenes were so full of emotion. Brilliantly done by both actors. I was crying. Truly. Watching Data die again was just heartbreaking. He is the reason I became a science fiction, and STAR TREK, fan. His character holds a very special and dear place in my heart... an 8 year old boy watching the TNG premiere in 1987 and just falling in love with the character. His curiousity, his morality, his gentleness... Data can be summed up in one word.
Hero.
Not just a hero in the show, but my personal scifi hero, something I got to tell Brent Spiner when I met him at DragonCon years ago.
So it was quite emotional for me watching that last scene of him as he vanishes. It was like saying goodbye to a huge part of my childhood. If only one thing can be used to justify the existence of STAR TREK: PICARD, it was this.
This has been a great season, and I look forward to the next.
