Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2"

[Llywela]

Data didn't ask for help committing suicide. He asked to be released from limbo. His consciousness was a copy of a backup, it wasn't the real Data, just enough of him to be aware of his situation - I don't think he could be transferred into a new synth body, if so it seems fairly certain Maddox would have done so long ago. They would need detailed scans of his positronic brain to map onto, but those scans don't exist, which means the new brain couldn't be configured properly and would fail in the same way B4 did. There was no suicide idealisation. Data was already dead. What Picard met was merely an echo and what Picard did for him was akin to releasing a ghost to allow it to rest in peace.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Yeah...Data had truly been dead for many years. But his consciousness...figuratively, his soul...was trapped in purgatory. And there's something very touching about Data's ultimate achievement in emulating humanity being to experience mortality.

 

[Longinus]

Data didn't ask for help committing suicide. He asked to be released from limbo. His consciousness was a copy of a backup, it wasn't the real Data, just enough of him to be aware of his situation - I don't think he could be transferred into a new synth body, if so it seems fairly certain Maddox would have done so long ago. They would need detailed scans of his positronic brain to map onto, but those scans don't exist, which means the new brain couldn't be configured properly and would fail in the same way B4 did. There was no suicide idealisation. Data was already dead. What Picard met was merely an echo and what Picard did for him was akin to releasing a ghost to allow it to rest in peace.

If it was for some reason impossible to put Data into a new body, then that is something that they should have explicitly stated. With what they did to Picard it seemed perfectly possible and it seemed like a pointless suicide. And programming Picard to die is a delayed murder.

 

[GhoulEddie74]

This was the death of the last remaining sentient fragment of Data. Not his actual death per se but the extinguishing of all that was left of him that was self-conscious and retaining of his original personality.

So he died a second death in a way but this time it was on his own terms. The superior of the two deaths.

 

[The Old Mixer]

but the generations that followed abandoned that positivity for negativity, abandoned liberalism for political correctness and identity politics.

Hey, are you lumping us Gen Xer's in there with the Millennials? I still have a little generational pride, you know...!

It is essentially just an elaborate cure for a disease that didn't need to be introduced in the first place. So what was the point?

For one thing, it gave Picard the opportunity to make the ultimate sacrifice. Some have pointed out the inconsistency of Picard's speechifying suddenly having paid off here, but dramatically, it was because he wasn't just speechifying this time, he was setting an example with his actions. It came down to convincing Soji with his self-sacrifice.

What was the meaning of the five queens? Of that dream sequence in general?

The dream wasn't necessarily a premonition of any sort. Sometimes a dream is just a dream. In this case, it could have been a variation on a recurring dream, and/or triggered by the impending interview. The five queens were just something that people read way too much into. Like searching for Paul Is Dead clues.

Elfwich, as lovable as he is, really had no moment or special story function to justify his existence.

Yeah, I don't know what the intent was or how it came to be, but they really dropped the ball with his character. There was no arc to speak of.

The two cool Romulan caretakers just disappeared, despite my expectation that they would pop up at a pivotal moment.

Definitely would like to have seen them pop up again, if only briefly.

Some have questioned the fate of Picard's mortal remains...an interesting way to start that now-hypothetical next season would be to have Picard bringing his own body home...

I do find it unfortunate that the story perpetuated the religious propaganda that it's best to just live your allotted years and then go peacefully into that good night

I don't see it that way...more as this show putting its money where Gene's Vision's mouth was...embracing mortality as an inevitable part of the human experience.

And programming Picard to die is a delayed murder.

That's putting things way too strongly. Most of us aren't designed with an immortality option. They were giving Picard what he might have expected without the condition responsible for his premature death.

 

[Longinus]

That's putting things way too strongly. Most of us aren't designed with an immortality option. They were giving Picard what he might have expected without the condition responsible for his premature death.

But that body was designed with an immortality option. And they completely needlessly removed it. That they would do it is insane, glorifying death this way is insane.

 

[Makarov]

Just my opinion but I disagree that he just wanted to be released from Limbo. That was fully Data and he states the reason is because he wants to experience mortality. He does not really state any displeasure with living in the simulation that I can remember. Data could have asked the same thing in the real world and requested Geordi destroy him

I like the way it played out but I think the arguments against it are pretty valid too.

I didnt quite like how they laughed off Picard's programmed death day. It would have been more interesting if Picard had a change of mindset and wanted to live as long as possible.

If Picard is going to experience synthetic life I would think he would want to fully explore it

 

[Anduinel]

Some have questioned the fate of Picard's mortal remains...an interesting way to start that now-hypothetical next season would be to have Picard bringing his own body home...

I would absolutely pay for a month of CBS AA just to see Laris' reaction.

 

[A Killer's Dream]

I would absolutely pay for a month of CBS AA just to see Laris' reaction.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh, I love your Avatar.

 

[The Old Mixer]

But that body was designed with an immortality option. And they completely needlessly removed it. That they would do it is insane, glorifying death this way is insane.

They were giving Picard the gift of a second chance at life. You're looking the gift horse in the mouth.

 

[Gonzo]

Picards body goes home to the Chateau which was bequeathed to Laris and Zhaban as set out in his will.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard then turns up late for his own funeral, Laris sees him and calls him a cheeky fecker which is fair enough if you think about it.

They had no real choice but to give Picard a perfect copy of his old body just without the brain issue, it would be too obvious otherwise and that would open a big can of worms for all concerned.

Its highly likely it will all be covered up by just not talking about it at all, neither Riker nor Clancy have any idea, the only person that could give the game away is Troi but we all know she won't.

I really will not be surprised if Picard's body isn't quite as normal as they made out, especially with both Jurati and Altan being quick to close down any attempt at an in depth discussion.

I hope we get some subtle hints here and there to make us wonder about it.

 

[Longinus]

They were giving Picard the gift of a second chance at life. You're looking the gift horse in the mouth.

They needlessly murdered him.

 

[Frightscape One]

Side note: throughout the season, every time I heard Elnor's name, I just kept thinking 'Elroy' from THE JETSONS.

 

[The Old Mixer]

They needlessly murdered him.

Picard's wishes in this matter were different from yours. And you might as well accuse everyone's parents of "murdering" them when they're conceived. I just can't see where such outrage is justified.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Just a magic device that can fix anything. It sounds good though, having this beautiful, innocent and naive synth give Rios and Raffi the device and just tell them "use your imagination." It's like John Lennon in his white suit speaking to you.

More like...

 

[Dale Sams]

This was the death of the last remaining sentient fragment of Data. Not his actual death per se but the extinguishing of all that was left of him that was self-conscious and retaining of his original personality.

So he died a second death in a way but this time it was on his own terms. The superior of the two deaths.

Well...one saved 10 billion people...the other was laying on a couch.

But i get your jist.

 

[Longinus]

Picard's wishes in this matter were different from yours. And you might as well accuse everyone's parents of "murdering" them when they're conceived. I just can't see where such outrage is justified.

They didn't even ask Picard's opinion. And if those parent's installed death timers into their babies for no reason that would significantly decrease their lifespan, then yes, they would be murdering them.

And the death timer was unnecessary. As the episode already established with Data, suicide is just fine dandy and even commendable, so they could have just left Picard immortal and he could have offed himself when he felt that it was time to die because apparently that's what one must do to really be human.

 

[GhoulEddie74]

I've saved millions from my couch. If you count playing Halo games.

 

[Gepard]

Never mind, Spock. That doesn't count.

Spock should have stayed dead.

TSFS is an alright movie on its own, but it does undercut the power of TWOK. It's pretty much impossible to watch Spock's death without remembering that the sequel will come right along and undo it. Meyer had the right idea to refuse to be involved with that.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

This was the death of the last remaining sentient fragment of Data. Not his actual death per se but the extinguishing of all that was left of him that was self-conscious and retaining of his original personality. So he died a second death in a way but this time it was on his own terms. The superior of the two deaths.

I'm confused by your use of "on his own terms."? Both of Data's deaths were on his own terms. I don't believe his second-death was necessary but won't hold it against them other than to say the ending in general was pleasantly hokey between Picard's resurrection, data's death do over and the kumbaya final scene.

My bigger complaint has more to do with the overall lightness and ease of the conclusion. So many major players just ultimately lacked conviction or sincerity. It was almost like a Q-ish finger snap sort of resolution, but it is often, as they say, "the journey rather than the destination that is important."

As for the Romulan/Federation showdown … again, the Federation (like Soong and others) lacks conviction and credibility. Last we saw of the Federation they were obstinately against Picard and strangely enough in a deal with the Romulans. Then magically they listen to Riker? And boy, what a fleet of Starfleet ships amassed on no notice!

Was it me or did all the Starfleet ships look alike and all the Romulan ships looked alike? I guess that would save on costs just cloning one ship per side over and over again.

In any event, I'm sure most can agree it was better than Enterprise and Discovery.