Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x02 - "Maps and Legends"

[AlanC9]

I cannot recall of any, aside from T'Pring's wonderful conspiracy to have Spock murdered by Stonn's hand or vice versa.

Technically, this wouldn't be murder, would it? Murder is unlawful killing, and the plan was legal. Although I believe her original plan does fulfill the literal definition of a conspiracy.

Being legal is a point in favor of the plan. If you want to kill someone, it's logical to do it legally if you can.

 

[Captain pl1ngpl0ng]

YIKES, that's some Yoko Ono level stuff!

hehe im not sure about yoko but Nina was clasically trained as an opera singer tho...
anyway sorry for totaly derailing this thread.... lets get back to Picard

 

[AlanC9]

You are wrong. The rules explicitly said she could challenge. They had a contingency setup for just that possibility.

This doesn't contradict what I actually argued. Her actions were within the rules, sure. I said that myself.

 

[fireproof78]

Technically, this wouldn't be murder, would it? Murder is unlawful killing, and the plan was legal. Although I believe her original plan does fulfill the literal definition of a conspiracy.

Being legal is a point in favor of the plan. If you want to kill someone, it's logical to do it legally if you can.

Vulcans thrive on technicalities. But, you have a point.

 

[Kevman7987]

Wow, this thread went totally off the rails a lot quicker than last week's did.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

This doesn't contradict what I actually argued. ...

Actually it does. Dictionaries are free via the internet. Words actually mean things. Really!

Vulcans thrive on technicalities. But, you have a point.

Not a technicality. You too may benefit from the online resources of the internet.

Until tomorrow, geniuses, LLAP!

 

[jaime]

So we'll change it to "someone dying". Not sure that is any better...

Didn’t say it was, but in this case, measuring Vulcan civilisation by how the treat THE WOMEN! is not accurate.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Didn’t say it was, but in this case, measuring Vulcan civilisation by how the treat THE WOMEN! is not accurate.

Furthermore we don't know if it goes both ways. What if Spock challenged and T'Pau was looking to go forward with the marriage? Would Nurse Chapel have had to fight her to the death?

 

[jaime]

Did someone already notice the questionable hygiene of these people?

First, they have sex in their underwear but that's not the worst of it. After they get out of bed they put their clothes on and go to work!!! How about a shower, pigs!!!

You were not a teenager in my era. Or a twenty something.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Nina Hagen and the Pon Farr's...

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thank you. In days like these I need more Nina in my life.

 

[cooleddie74]

Sex in my underwear sounds like most of my love life during my twenties.

What?

 

[Kevman7987]

I feel gross if I don't shower when I get up in the morning. After copulation, with all of the "juices" everywhere, I'd need to shower immediately.

 

[AgentCoop]

This thread has taken an odd turn.

 

[thribs]

Picard seemed so shocked that the twin was off world. Does he not know there are other planets?

 

[SolarisOne]

Picard seemed so shocked that the twin was off world. Does he not know there are other planets?

No, there aren't. The universe only exists where he is.

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[The Old Mixer]

Picard seemed so shocked that the twin was off world. Does he not know there are other planets?

Yeah, I thought it was silly how they played that up as if it were a shocking reveal. She's...*gasp*...not on Earth! In Star Trek? Who'da thunk?

 

[Vger23]

Yeah, I thought it was silly how they played that up as if it were a shocking reveal. She's...*gasp*...not on Earth! In Star Trek? Who'da thunk?

I think it was more the significance of Picard realizing that he needes to return to space that they were playing up.

 

[Greg Cox]

More about the Vulcans.

In general, I'm bemused by the tendency to idealize or romanticize the Vulcans. From where I'm sitting, they were never meant to be role models, but one aspect of humanity taken to an extreme. Indeed, the whole point of the Spock-Kirk-McCoy dynamic was that Spock represented logic, McCoy represented emotion, with Kirk trying to strike the right balance between the two.

Furthermore, Spock's whole character arc over the course of his life is about him embracing his human emotions and recognizing that the Vulcan way--pure logic, repression of emotions--is not enough. That's what his big epiphany in TMP is all about, as he turns away from the Vulcan ideal of Kolinahr to eventually grasp that simple feelings, of the sort that are beyond V'Gr's comprehension, can transcend logic.

And lest I be accused of revisionism, let it be noted that TMP was overseen by Roddenberry himself. And that the novelization, also written by Roddenberry, gave McCoy a whole big speech about how much the Vulcans' obsession with logic has cost them and their culture. The Vulcans are basically a cautionary fable about taking logic and emotional repression too far.

Heck, when it comes to "deconstructing Vulcans," McCoy started that way before ENTERPRISE.

 

[NCC-73515]

Did someone already notice the questionable hygiene of these people?

First, they have sex in their underwear but that's not the worst of it. After they get out of bed they put their clothes on and go to work!!! How about a shower, pigs!!!

They probably have to walk through a decontamination field at work anyway, no need to shower

 

[Yistaan]

More about the Vulcans.

In general, I'm bemused by the tendency to idealize or romanticize the Vulcans. From where I'm sitting, they were never meant to be role models, but one aspect of humanity taken to an extreme. Indeed, the whole point of the Spock-Kirk-McCoy dynamic was that Spock represented logic, McCoy represented emotion, with Kirk trying to strike the right balance between the two.

Furthermore, Spock's whole character arc over the course of his life is about him embracing his human emotions and recognizing that the Vulcan way--pure logic, repression of emotions--is not enough. That's what his big epiphany in TMP is all about, as he turns away from the Vulcan ideal of Kolinahr to eventually grasp that simple feelings, of the sort that are beyond V'Gr's comprehension, can transcend logic.

And lest I be accused of revisionism, let it be noted that TMP was overseen by Roddenberry himself. And that the novelization, also written by Roddenberry, gave McCoy a whole big speech about how much the Vulcans' obsession with logic has cost them and their culture. The Vulcans are basically a cautionary fable about taking logic and emotional repression too far.

Heck, when it comes to "deconstructing Vulcans," McCoy started that way before ENTERPRISE.

While all that is technically true, I think we do need a bit more "logical" thinking in a world that's gone emotionally amok. The appeal of Spock's character is that he did care for his friends, and his logical reasoning and actions ensured he took the best actions to protect them. And this is vital in real life as well.

Having a mother who all my life said, "I scream so much because I care!" while not actually bothering to do anything constructive to actually help in vital situations, I find that excessive emotions are often an excuse to act invested while ultimately not doing anything of value. One particularly vicious example of my mother and brother doing such is below

I don't know. I can't explain why he thinks the way he does.

He cites the American President as his role model on his behavior, because "he's defeating the left". His behavior has gotten increasingly vicious to the point I've been called "lying liberal", he sneered "who are your friends?" and demanded I read aloud my emails of the years I struggled with permanent ear ringing and difficulties finding a girlfriend "so I can laugh at you." These last few statements were so beyond the pale, and happened just last month at Thanksgiving, that I had to tell my father that I could no longer attend events where he was present (he and my mother also had laughs at my wife's expense last Christmas which they refused to apologize for--she was so scared she refused to let my mother go with us to the airport when she visited her parents in Moscow). Oh and my brother isn't some uneducated person, he's a 30+ year old medical doctor.

He wasn't always like that when he started watching Trek as a kid. He changed. Maybe he thinks Trek changed and didn't realize it was him that changed.