Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x02 - "Maps and Legends"

[BillJ]

It's like if Xena had more money but worse writers

We're almost done with the first season, and both my wife and I have enjoyed it pretty well. Not the best TV show ever, but definitely entertaining. Cavill does an excellent job as Geralt of Rivia, at least in comparison to the games.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, we have had this discussions many times on Discovery forums, I really don't think there is much to add. For decades Trek tried to keep pretty decent visual continuity, so that when older eras were revisited they appeared pretty much as they were when first seen. Some people preferred that approach, some other prefer updating. It is just a matter of taste, no one is really right or wrong.

It was more out of necessity than continuity, though.

 

[Hythlodeus]

We're almost done with the first season, and both my wife and I have enjoyed it pretty well. Not the best TV show ever, but definitely entertaining. Cavill does an excellent job as Geralt of Rivia, at least in comparison to the games.

yeah, grunting a lot fits his acting range pretty well

 

[BillJ]

And that's a problem why?

Because it is pretty hypocritical. Essentially what we have is a bunch of people going on about folks being stuck in the past because they don't want to see the visuals changed, but then are hanging onto story points from the same time period like they came straight from the King James Bible.

Either keep it all, or rip it off like a band-aid on hairy skin. I'm not a fan of trying to have it both ways.

 

[Longinus]

It was more out of necessity than continuity, though.

Definitely not.

 

[BillJ]

It was more out of necessity than continuity, though.

Was it though? It would've been far cheaper to simply redress the sets they already had and simply said that visuals don't matter than to rebuild new sets from scratch.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Definitely not.

I think if they had the budget to create new ships and costumes for flashbacks especially those between the movies and TNG they would.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Was it though? It would've been far cheaper to simply redress the sets they already had and simply said that visuals don't matter than to rebuild new sets from scratch.

Isn't that what was done in most cases?

 

[BillJ]

Isn't that what was done in most cases?

"Relics" looked like they built a partial new set for the 1701 bridge. "Trials and Tribble-ations" built new 1701 and K7 models and built interior hallways and sets for both. I imagine none of that was particularly cheap to pull off. They built a ton of sets for the Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly". Plus they had to create the Defiant exterior CGI assets.

 

[mswood]

I understand why they do it, because shock value, but what is the deal with so much violence?

I watched TNG with my kids, and so naturally my 8 and 6 year olds wanted to watch the new show with us. They are literally shooting giant gaping holes through people now and snapping necks and bones like it's no big deal.

Well it's not like TNG wasn't famous for using their hand phaser to blow up someone's skull and open up their chest cavity. Not to mention good ole Dr. Crusher shooting a massive hole in a person so that the camera could see through his torso. Or the times they vaporized someone's skin a tissues leaving just the skeleton to finally be destroyed. I think 30 years later it's probably still ok.

 

[BillJ]

I understand why they do it, because shock value, but what is the deal with so much violence?

I watched TNG with my kids, and so naturally my 8 and 6 year olds wanted to watch the new show with us. They are literally shooting giant gaping holes through people now and snapping necks and bones like it's no big deal.

Star Trek has always been violent.

 

[fireproof78]

Relics" looked like they built a partial new set for the 1701 bridge.

That was a fan recreation borrowed by the production.

 

[Nerys Myk]

"Relics" looked like they built a partial new set for the 1701 bridge. "Trials and Tribble-ations" built new 1701 and K7 models and built interior hallways and sets for both. I imagine none of that was particularly cheap to pull off.

Those would be the exceptions and not most cases.

 

[Longinus]

I think if they had the budget to create new ships and costumes for flashbacks especially those between the movies and TNG they would.

Using the movie costumes was certainly due budgetary reasons, but that's not what we're talking about, as 'between the movies and TNG' was not a previously seen era anyway. We're talking about recreating TOS sets and costumes for "Relics", "Trials and Tribbleations" and "In a Mirror, Darkly".

 

[BillJ]

That was a fan recreation borrowed by the production.

That was the original idea, but they ended up building a portion of it according to Memory Alpha...

It was Moore, who suggested recreating the bridge as a set, having already done so a year earlier for the USS Bozeman in "Cause and Effect", but like on that occasion, the idea was initially nixed for budgetary reasons. (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion, 3rd ed. p. 219) Michael Piller recalled, "We had Scotty and then Ron came up with this wonderful idea of recreating the old starship. It was an interesting dilemma because it was a very expensive proposition. It was actually cut out after the first meeting with Rick and the production people." (Cinefantastique, Vol. 24, issue 3/4, p. 23) Yet, this time around, Moore was not ready to let go of the idea, and continued to look into the possibilities. Ultimately, after Piller suggested renting fan-built replicas or maquettes, it was Production Designer Richard James who came up with a cost effective suggestion, of building only a wedged-shaped part of the bridge and have it composited with a blue screen matte using suitable film elements from the old series as background, if such footage could be found. (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion, 3rd ed. p. 219) "My initial reaction was what we wound up doing," James elaborated, "I said if they could find a clip of the original bridge of the Enterprise, then we could take that film clip and do blue screen and I could just build a piece of the original to shoot the actors against. When Scotty walks in and sees an empty bridge, what he sees is a blue screen. Then I explained that we could take the actor across the blue screen and pick him up walking into the frame again and he'd be against the real set at that point." Supervising Producer David Livingston, who originally vetoed the construction of the set, was elated at James' suggestion, "I said we couldn't build the bridge. I'm sure I did. If I didn't, I should have. But that's when Richard brought up looking at the original show and seeing if we can get "stock footage" off of it. That was like manna from heaven." (Cinefantastique, Vol. 24, issue 3/4, p. 25)

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Constitution_class_sets#.22Relics.22

 

[Longinus]

Those would be the exceptions and not most cases.

Those are only cases when TOS era was seen after TOS! You're not making any sense! Also, when they showed Excelsior flashback on Voyager, it was faithfully recreated too. Look, you can like the 'visual rebooting' Discovery did, that's just a matter of opinion, but it being a different approach than what was used before is not, because that is a fact.

 

[BillJ]

Those would be the exceptions and not most cases.

But it was the case when they wanted to represent that period of the 23rd century.

 

[Greg Cox]

Well it's not like TNG wasn't famous for using their hand phaser to blow up someone's skull and open up their chest cavity. Not to mention good ole Dr. Crusher shooting a massive hole in a person so that the camera could see through his torso. Or the times they vaporized someone's skin a tissues leaving just the skeleton to finally be destroyed. I think 30 years later it's probably still ok.

As a kid, I watched Pike impale that giant warrior, people get burned alive by the Horta, an injured officer dying in flames in "Arena," blood bubbling from the Gorn's neck, McCoy after being tortured in "The Empath," Kirk getting stabbed in the ribs on the way to Babel, Jack the Ripper on the loose, etc. And it's not as though all those redshirts died of natural causes.

Granted, the violence was less graphic in the sixties, in part because of network Standards & Practices, because the new TREK shows are no more graphic than most modern television shows that feature death and casualties. Trust me, TOS (and THE OUTER LIMITS) were pretty damn intense when I was a little kid, but I still adored them.

Lots of kids like gross, scary stuff.

EDIT: Heck, nothing on the new shows has freaked me out like that faceless woman in "Charlie X" did back in the day.

 

[arch101]

Can't argue with that. It seems to be a one long movie that is just chopped up.

That’s why I’m waiting until all the eps come out before I buy in. I want to be able to binge it. I’m sure I’m not alone.

 

[oberth]

And it's not as though all those redshirts died of natural causes.

you are not masking sense here for redshirts the causes they died of were perfectly natural we have yet to see a redshirt dying in bed, though