Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x02 - "Maps and Legends"

[eschaton]

I wondered if the Mars attack prologue got added because they thought it would be too talky of an episode without it.

They claim it's because they decided that hearing about the Mars attack in the first episode didn't have enough emotional impact, so they felt the need to add a visual depiction.

Still not trusting Laris and Zhaban. But especially Laris...

Having read the prequel comics, it's very, very unlikely that either would betray him.

Why does Picard seem so upset about the discrimination against synthetics after they "turned" on humanity.....

But doesn't seem to care at ALL that they even had a population of SLAVE androids in the first place?

Seems the androids were there before the Romulan evacuation. Picard would have left Starfleet due to the Android labor force before any of that even happened.

Did the writers not watch "Measure of a Man?"

I didn't really get any idea from the prequel scene at the top of the episode that the "synths" were anything but humanoid machines. They didn't act like self-aware beings at all. Did Data ever just stay in a closet until it was time for his shift to begin?

 

[KennyB]

Why does Picard seem so upset about the discrimination against synthetics after they "turned" on humanity.....

But doesn't seem to care at ALL that they even had a population of SLAVE androids in the first place?

Seems the androids were there before the Romulan evacuation. Picard would have left Starfleet due to the Android labor force before any of that even happened.

Did the writers not watch "Measure of a Man?"

I think the writers have watched it more than some "fans".............I don't think the slave androids were common knowledge.

 

[B. L.]

It's a real-life surname on Earth. Perhaps her father was human.



Those particular synths at the Mars facility were clearly just dumb automatons, though. It's not like they had created a whole race of sophisticated androids like Data to use as grunts.

Kor

Meanwhile exocomps

 

[B. L.]

I think the writers have watched it more than some "fans".............I don't think the slave androids were common knowledge.

The point is that Picard never publicly denounced Starfleet for this when he had a chance. He only wanted to get mad at them for discrimination against them, not enslaving them.

If they were "dumbbots" then there's no relationship to Data, and he would have mentioned the distinction when he was questioned by the reporter.

 

[ITDUDE]

BTW Commodore Oh, is she a Romulan agent or a treacherous Vulcan ?

Romulan

Though it might be that Rizzo and Narek simply have their own, hitherto unknown agenda at odds with the rest of the Zhat Vash.

Yep, this

Wouldn't that probably mean that Star Fleet once again, adjusted the WARP Scale it is using?

Perhaps due to newer and faster ships.

The new WARP 13 could be a shortened way to say WARP 9.9999999999999.

Yep, just rescaled. I reaaallly hope they use Warp 13 in the next episode when they finally get on their way.

Even though the cube is cut off from the collective it's still somewhat active. Five thousand something days with out an assimilation? Can't wait to see how this blows up in everyone's face.

Last assimilation was 16 years ago, BEFORE Mars attack. Very interesting implications....

I've read some very vitriolic reviews over at Trekmovie. I really don't understand the fan base anymore. Too fast, too slow, not enough fan service, too much fan service. It's extremely depressing.

There is 50+ years of Star Trek. Different people take different things from it. It's only natural

What does the decade have to do with anything? I’m talking about consistency.
Would have been cool if they got Rebecca Romijn to voice it as well.

Because she is new Number One, and former Number One, Majel Barrett-Roddenberry was also, the computer/narrator? There is meta, there is good meta, and there is too much meta. I think this is the latter category.

She had an IDIC symbol and a Kir'Shara on her desk.

I could buy them from Amazon and have them on my desk tomorrow. Won't make me a Vulcan. She could have gotten those as gifts after good dealings with Vulcans.

And then there's Raffi at last. So she's living off-grid on the planet where Kirk fought the Gorn! And also Vulcan! And also Veridian III! And pretty much everywhere in Star Trek ever!

Vasquez Rocks were playing themselves in this episode. A nice change of pace

Anyone in Australia having issues with Amazon for the second ep? Every time I go on, the episode is up but says “unavailable”

I am out of the country though. Perhaps it won’t let me view it cause my internet is not coming from in Aus.

VPN, get VPN. There as some good free ones, but even paid ones are worth $2-3/month you'd pay for them

So many misspellings of poor Soji's name in this thread!

I still can't spell Dahj without looking it up.

"Feckers": different word, distinct meaning, not quite so vulgar, but often used as an explitive like fuckers.

I'll start using it instead of frack, whenever I want to swear on the forums

I always liked Nechayev.

She's the only Admiral I remembered from TNG before I started rewatching it in prep for Picard.

 

[Datasbeard]

Clancy calls Picard out on talking bad about Starfleet last night on the news. Why would they allow someone to rejoin Starfleet "just for one mission" the day after he just trashed them?

One would hope that by the 24th century, organizations would rise above retaliating against those who would criticize them.

 

[DaveyNY]

I want a readable version of Adm. Clancy's map.

It's essentially this version of the Star Trek Online Galaxy Map...
(which is the one they had at launch of the game back in 2010)

WARNING: REALLY HUGE IMAGE ...

 

[KennyB]

The point is that Picard never publicly denounced Starfleet for this when he had a chance. He only wanted to get mad at them for discrimination against them, not enslaving them.

My point is I don't think ANYONE outside the facility knew about the army of slave androids. How could Picard complain if he did not know about them. We need more info before we pass judgment on Picard or the writing staff.

 

[Lord Garth]

One would hope that by the 24th century, organizations would rise above retaliating against those who would criticize them.

Again, this is Picard's perception of what Starfleet should be versus what it actually is. You know how Worf is more Klingon than Klingon? Picard is more Starfleet than Starfleet. Most of Starfleet doesn't think like him. They're not textbook officers, whereas Picard is.

 

[ITDUDE]

One more thing I forgot to mention...
Romulans with ridges, definitely saw some some ridges on Romulan guards. Not as pronounced as TNG, but definitely confirms that there are different Romulan races

 

[Corran Horn]

Still not trusting Laris and Zhaban. But especially Laris...

From the comic, they have pretty good reasons to be loyal to Picard.

But also, pretty good reasons to act suspiciously.

 

[Longinus]

My point is I don't think ANYONE outside the facility knew about the army of slave androids. How could Picard complain if he did not know about them. We need more info before we pass judgment on Picard or the writing staff.

Why are they slaves? Are he other workers slaves too? Why can't the synth be just working there like the rest of them?

 

[Datasbeard]

I also find it problematic because these type of scenes normalize and act like these situations happen all the time, when the truth is it's becoming more rare.

Normalize what? That people can meet, be interested in one another, and have sex? That's becoming more rare?

As a man who didn't get a girlfriend into my mid-30s, you're lucky if you can even find a woman willing to socialize with you for more than 5 minutes before you get "I'm busy, I have a boyfriend, etc. why are you talking to me again?"

All mean-sounding examples. Really proliferates the myth that if a woman rejects someone she's a bitch. A woman can say "no, not interested," and there's literally nothing sinister or malicious in that at all. If you perceive it that way, that's your problem and no one else's.

 

[Racefuel]

One would hope that by the 24th century, organizations would rise above retaliating against those who would criticize them.

Retaliation has been an element in Star Trek for a long, long time.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Those androids didn’t seem to reach the threshold of sentience.

 

[Racefuel]

Why are they slaves? Are he other workers slaves too? Why can't the synth be just working there like the rest of them?

They're kept in a storage locker, called "plastic", insulted because they're not human, etc.

You really think they were being viewed as just another worker?

 

[B. L.]

My point is I don't think ANYONE outside the facility knew about the army of slave androids. How could Picard complain if he did not know about them. We need more info before we pass judgment on Picard or the writing staff.

Let's assume he does not know about them during the Romulan evacuation.

The public widely knows about the synthetics at the point of the broadcast interview. The reporter specifically mentions this, and goes on to question Picard on his trust in synthetics. 1

1. He gives no indication that he was unaware of their use.
2. He does not protest when they compare them to data as one might expect if they were "dumbbots". He simply says he trusted him and did not know why the synths did what they did.
3. He never mentions at all the ethics of using them in the first place. We know he cares deeply about at least one android, and in the past he has shown respect for these life forms and even dumber life forms at the cost of his own.
4. Even if he did not know about them until afterwards, it does not make sense that he does not mention his condemnation for Starfleet for using an android slave race. He would at the very least included it in his lists of grievances against them to explain his exit.

 

[KennyB]

Why are they slaves? Are he other workers slaves too? Why can't the synth be just working there like the rest of them?

No my word.....was replying to BL. Yeah I get your point...........they do get time off it seems. Just in a closet ;-)

 

[B. L.]

They're kept in a storage locker, called "plastic", insulted because they're not human, etc.

You really think they were being viewed as just another worker?

Let's also ignore the way he treats the hologram lady in his locker room. He never acted that way before. He knows from his experiences that there's a very fine line between an automaton and sentience.

Of course, his dementia explains it all away, lol such a cheap get out of jail free card for the writers to explain bad writing.

 

[Kor]

I like the variety of Romulan "looks," with more natural hairstyles, and different levels of forehead smoothness/bumpiness. Even the more built-up foreheads somehow look much more aesthetically appealing than the TNG-era forehead brow.

Kor