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STAR TREK: PHASE II "The Child" Teaser Sneak Peek

They are better than the TNG movies.

They are not in the same league.

Professionals started out as Amateurs.

"Fresh minds. New ideas."
 
They are better than the TNG movies.

They are not in the same league.

Professionals started out as Amateurs.

"Fresh minds. New ideas."
They are not better than the TNG movies.

They are not in the same league. Yep.

Professionals may start as amateurs, but not all amateurs become professionals, do they?

You've got the quote wrong.
 
They are not better than the TNG movies.

Depends on what aspects you're judging them on. Considering the majority of the folks involved are not working actors, I think they do an exceptional job and continue to improve.

In terms of stories and being true to what Trek is, they do beat the TNG movies in that respect. None of the TNG movies truly captured the essence of the show, although first contact did show some glimmers here and there. For the most part the TNG movies were way off the mark. I still mourn the missed opportunites.
 
It would be more accurate to say that the fan films appeal to you more than the TNG films did. That's fine, but it doesn't mean that they are "better."
 
They are not better than the TNG movies.

Depends on what aspects you're judging them on. Considering the majority of the folks involved are not working actors, I think they do an exceptional job and continue to improve.

In terms of stories and being true to what Trek is, they do beat the TNG movies in that respect. None of the TNG movies truly captured the essence of the show, although first contact did show some glimmers here and there. For the most part the TNG movies were way off the mark. I still mourn the missed opportunites.

Here's one of the terms I'm sick of hearing from fans — "being true to what Trek is." What does that even really mean? What truly does make a story Trek? Action-adventure? Thoughtful drama? Biting social commentary? All those things or none of those things? STAR TREK is a format for telling a variety of stories. Really, it is an sort-of anthology with continuing characters, going from planet to planet, adventure to adventure.

Honestly, STAR TREK was much more fascinating in the early days of TOS when it wasn't stuck in the STAR TREK format, the STAR TREK formula. When it was willing to tell a variety of stories, some very reminiscent of THE OUTER LIMITS and THE TWILIGHT ZONE.

What fans are really talking about when they say "true to what Trek is" is that STAR TREK format, that STAR TREK formula. That cookie-cutter, predictable manner of storytelling. That comfort food of storytelling in its familiarity. Warm, delicious, and easily digestible. So when anything challenges that format or attempts to challenge the very fabric of STAR TREK's storytelling, fans react with a sour stomach. Things like ST '09, or even the TNG films (although it's debatable if it was well-done), that challenge that format are always seen as not being true to what Trek is.

Frankly, while I didn't care for the majority of the TNG films, at least two of the four attempted to actually have Picard actively try to solve the stories' problems rather than react to them like in the show. In other words, Picard took ACTION and wasn't REACTIVE. We see this in FIRST CONTACT and INSURRECTION.

While PHASE: II (and the majority of fan films) is great at recreating sets, costumes and giving us a somewhat enjoyable simulacrum of TOS, it is in no way challenging its viewers or their perceptions of STAR TREK storytelling. Melodrama is a substitute for solid dramatic storytelling. There is a lack of the nuances of dramatic storytelling with characters, particularly Kirk, being REACTIVE rather than ACTIVE participants in the stories. Kirk doesn't solve problems, he allows problems to work themselves out.

And while I know that some of their scripts come from Trek alum and professional writers, like David Gerrold, Jon Povill and Marc Scott Zicree, it seems that there's been no attempt to have those writers fix obvious flaws in story structure or make Kirk a more active participant in those stories, have him drive the action. PHASE: II tends to have Kirk take a backseat to the guest actors, such as Walter Koenig or George Takei, or to Mary Sue-type characters, such as Peter Kirk. (And Chekov is now skirting that Mary Sue trope in recent episodes.)

So fault the TNG movies for not being true to what Trek is, but at least they tried to correct the flaw of the TNG series by having Picard be a more active protagonist that drove the action in the stories rather than just going aimlessly from scene to scene.
 
Picard was great in the movies. I've never been a fan of Nemesis, but Picard's portrayal in that film was just fine.

I have yet to see a fan film that was "better" than any of the actual feature films. It isn't a fair comparison anyway, so I don't know why some feel the need to make such statements.
 
Picard was great in the movies. I've never been a fan of Nemesis, but Picard's portrayal in that film was just fine.

I have yet to see a fan film that was "better" than any of the actual feature films. It isn't a fair comparison anyway, so I don't know why some feel the need to make such statements.
Both true and fair statements. I don't get it either.

None of which means people can't like one or the other more. At the end of the day, we all like what we like, and it really isn't much more complex than that, IMO. :)
 
It would be more accurate to say that the fan films appeal to you more than the TNG films did. That's fine, but it doesn't mean that they are "better."
This exactly.

I think my new favorite quote comes from Mr. Norman Spinrad on his Facebook page:

"I found J.J. Abrams' first Star Trek film quite inferior to the Phase II videos and his cavalier attitude towards the decades-long legacy of what Star Trek has come to mean to the general culture quite reprehensible, and indeed artistically counterproductive. And after all, I have always openly acknowledged the literary debt I owe to Herman Melville and MOBY DICK for inspiring 'The Doomsday Machine.'"
 
I don't like cookie cutter Star Trek. That's the reason I like the Phase II series. Why does Kirk have to be the focal point? Give the other characters a chance to shine.

If something is not professional does that automatically mean it stinks?

Star Trek is many things to many people. To each their own. :techman:
 
It would be more accurate to say that the fan films appeal to you more than the TNG films did. That's fine, but it doesn't mean that they are "better."
This exactly.

I think my new favorite quote comes from Mr. Norman Spinrad on his Facebook page:

"I found J.J. Abrams' first Star Trek film quite inferior to the Phase II videos and his cavalier attitude towards the decades-long legacy of what Star Trek has come to mean to the general culture quite reprehensible, and indeed artistically counterproductive. And after all, I have always openly acknowledged the literary debt I owe to Herman Melville and MOBY DICK for inspiring 'The Doomsday Machine.'"
Which is an entirely subjective opinion, even though I don't entirely disagree.

I could tell you I enjoy the TNG movies far more than Abram's Trek. I coud even list a litany of reasons why I prefer them, but it's still subjective.
 
I think my new favorite quote comes from Mr. Norman Spinrad on his Facebook page:

"I found J.J. Abrams' first Star Trek film quite inferior to the Phase II videos and his cavalier attitude towards the decades-long legacy of what Star Trek has come to mean to the general culture quite reprehensible, and indeed artistically counterproductive. And after all, I have always openly acknowledged the literary debt I owe to Herman Melville and MOBY DICK for inspiring 'The Doomsday Machine.'"

I really enjoyed the 2009 film. To each their own. I viewed it simply as a different take on the classic series. It was the first movie in what will be a series of movies, and I expect that the storytelling will be somewhat different in the sequels. I think the universe is big enough for more than one interpretation of Star Trek. The great thing about Star Trek: Phase II is that it contuinues the classic TOS style that many fans want to see, and for that, I consider it to be the true successor to the original series.
 
A couple of the Trek fan films are exceptionally well-done for volunteer efforts produced on limited budgets.

I've yet to see one that is professionally competent across the board both technically and artistically or that could plausibly compete on the same commercial playing field as even the low-budget SyFy Saturday movies. Sorry, but that's just a reality of the circumstances and limitations under which this work is done.

Norman is always entitled to his opinion. ;)
 
They are not better than the TNG movies.

Depends on what aspects you're judging them on. Considering the majority of the folks involved are not working actors, I think they do an exceptional job and continue to improve.

I won't comment on other Trek fan films, but in the case of "Phase II" this is exactly the OPPOSITE of the truth. The MAJORITY of the folks involved ARE WORKING actors.

Including:

Kirk - James Cawley
Spock - Brandon Stacy
Chekov - Jonathan Zungre
Peter - Bobby Quinn Rice
Walking Bear - Wayne W. Johnson
Uhura - Kim Stinger (was a working actress when she worked for us. She has since retired and returned to the corporate world.)

The ONLY main character that is currently portrayed by an "non working actor" could be argued is Scotty by Charles Root...though he is acting in other things, his day job is in another field.
 
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