Star Trek: Nemesis at 20 - Has Your Opinion Changed Over the Years?

[cooleddie74]

Tomorrow - December 9th - marks exactly 20 years since NEM received its world premiere in Los Angeles. As of tomorrow the end of the Classic TNG Era will be 20 years behind us and now would be as good a time as any to look back on the film and evaluate how it's fared as both a standing story and a Trek movie installment since December of 2002. It's almost universally near the bottom of most fans' lists of Trek movie rankings if not the bottom and while it's not an unheard of event to know a Trekkie who actually likes or loves the movie it's a rare one to hear put on a pedestal as one of the franchise's better movies.

Me? It's basically where it was almost 20 years ago. Near the very bottom(back then it was THE worst of the bunch for me and now it's next-to-last, behind only STID) and one I don't feel terribly motivated to revisit short of those rare occasions when the mood to see the TNG cast in a post-Dominion War galaxy is strong and I don't mind sitting through two hours of very uneven and often very disappointing scenes to get to Data's (first) death and the exquisite Jerry Goldsmith end titles music. Frankly, the Deleted Scenes work better than many of those left in the film.

It's not a very good movie as a Trek film but I do like the Deleted Scenes, the Scimitar's design, Tom Hardy's commitment to his role as Shinzon and the soundtrack. The end scene of Data's friends in Picard's Ready Room toasting his life and their relationships with him is also touching and a highlight of the movie. But overall it's a mess that's poorly served by Stuart Baird's clumsy direction and lack of energy when it came to knowing Trek history and applying that knowledge to getting the best performances out most of the main characters. I've seen worse Trek cinema, but not much.

What do you guys think? Does NEM get better with age, remain the same or just get less impressive? PIC as a series does help redeem Data's sacrifice in the movie and gives us some closure to the events of the film but it doesn't reinforce and improve NEM as much as it sort of apologizes, and I guess that's the best we can hope for.

 

[NCC-73515]

Only 5 is worse

 

[fireproof78]

I recall really liking this film a lot. I got to go with my huge Trekkie friends and saw it in the theater. Now, mind I was not a huge TNG fan, but friends of mine kept me up to speed, I had read the Encyclopedia, seen All Good Things, Pegasus, Best of Both Worlds and Descent, among others, so my knowledge of these characters and their journey was established. I also had seen Generations a couple of times, and First Contact once by this time. My best friend at the time, and I, cosplayed in the gray uniforms to a local convention.

So, I enjoyed it initially. I picked up the soundtrack. I loved the Scorpion fighter sequence but I got some serious "Descent: The Video Game" vibes, and my friends I played that over a LAN at the time. In short, I found it fun.

Now, I am less enthused by this film for a couple of reasons. One, the action scenes really don't make sense of a character point of view. This film tries way too hard to make Picard an action hero and it just doesn't feel right after trying to catch up on TNG. Second, the villain makes no sense. And finally, the whole B4 thing going nowhere, Wesley showing up at the wedding in uniform, the destruction of the Senate, the misuse of Ron Pearlman under so much makeup in a rather lackluster role, it all adds up to being a poor film.

 

[cooleddie74]

Picard's best scenes are with Shinzon. In almost all the others he just feels disappointing, like he's going through the motions since this movie was the TNG cast's fourth film together in only eight years and he'd already been Rambo Picard in a couple of those films, so he didn't add much of anything to his performance that we hadn't already seen. And Baird's direction didn't help make things more invigorating and interesting.

 

[arch101]

No- but I am very thankful that this wasn’t the TNG swan song- next yrs Picard will be…

 

[Dukhat]

It was a confusing jumbled mess of a film in 2002, and twenty years later, the only part of it that was redeemed was Data's second death. It was a testament to the folly of giving Stewart and Spiner creative control, a lesson that still hasn't been learned in 2022.

 

[cooleddie74]

"INS is as bad as a Next Gen film can get."

"Hold my glass of Chateau Picard 2267."

 

[Qonundrum]

NEM had a cool crash scene, complete with one helluva great soundtrack at times.

Everything else around that scene was a muddled and bizarre train wreck. Bloated, convoluted, overly and ridiculously contrived... it needed a complete overhaul and streamlining, less dune buggy nonsense, no B4, and no Spock Data death complete with copping dialogue from older star trek movies from when they killed off Spock. No Remans... Certainly no bottomless pit in the Enterprise... Hell, a Romulan offensive war effort leading to the manufacture of the big bad super-dee-duper ship with a Romulan faction against going to all-out war to try to stop them already resolves a number of things, as well as continuing on with Spock's unification antics having an effect... have Shinzon be a Romulan commander and ditch the contrived clone crud... so many missed opportunities, but at least they made sure we could recognize a photo of young Picard by having him bald, Shinzon is quick to figure out how to cripple Enterprise, for once so many pot shots that hit the nacelles somehow don't blow up the entire ship a la how one tap put the entire 1701-D in warp core breach mode, and they shoehorned Wesley back in briefly too for no reason...

Tom Hardy does MUCH with what he's given, especially for such a sub-par script.

The direction is surprisingly limp at times, considering the strength of the ramming scene.

And you know there are problems when the only time the audience positively reacts is when Riker says the K-word, "Kirk". If a movie is so bad it needs to rely on name droppings, easter eggs, and other theatrical bird droppings to get the audience to hoot and holler, then it's already struggling.

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(Then again, Data looks like he's preparing to break a leg, struggle with constipation, both, and/or something else...)

5 lacks the ram scene but is still a better movie.

Or, for the tldr answer, a skunk hit on the highway has aged better.

 

[cooleddie74]

I know this a long scene but damn, it's so much better than a lot of what material was left in.

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[Firebird]

I was so pumped for this movie before it came out, especially after reading the early draft screenplay that got leaked some months before it premiered... and then the movie came out and totally shat on all of my hopes. It was soulless, badly edited (so bizarre for a well-known editor like Stuart Baird), none of the character beats in the film's final cut felt quite right, and Data's death felt more like a warmed-over attempt to do a Khan ending. In the intervening years, Nemesis remains rock bottom on my list of Trek movies, and I don't see that ranking ever changing.

 

[Admiral Archer]

So much I could say right now, but it's very late where I am so I'm going to bed. Anyway, everyone knows nemesis is one of the only two things in Star Trek I actually despise, for reasons I've stated as nauseam in other threads. The score by the late genius Jerry Goldsmith was the only thing I enjoyed about this film, and his talents were wasted on such utter garbage. This was the first film I have ever seen where I left the theater in a rage (I was a passionate fan even at 13 lol). I'm too tired to elaborate further, but I've provided enough info that everyone can fill in the gaps.

 

[cooleddie74]

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[Vasquez Rocks]

Star Trek Picard helped with Data's death in the film which was lacking. The movie itself is just so dreary compared to TNG, Generations, First Contact and Insurrection. Everything is so dark and depressing looking. The deleted scenes would have helped give the picture some much needed character bits. It's too bad Jonathan Frakes wasn't at the helm again. I seem to remember reading LeVar Burton wanting a shot at it but I could be mistaken. In any event they needed someone with some knowledge of the show. Baird was a terrible choice and I don't think he directed anything since.

The things I did like is Tom Hardy's and Patrick Stewart's performances, Jerry Goldsmith's excellent score, the end space battle and the memorial toast for Data. I especially like Riker reminiscing his first encounter with Data.

It's not my least favorite film but it's close to the bottom.

 

[Lord Garth]

My opinion of Nemesis has nudged upwards, thanks in part to having seen the deleted scenes and knowing that it's not the end of the story now, thanks to Picard. I outright disliked the movie 20 years ago. Now I think it's a mixed bag. It'll never be one of my favorite Star Trek movies, not by a long shot, but there are worse things to watch and worse ways to kill time.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Shinzon faked Rene Picard's death.

Shinzon faked Robert Picard's death.

Man and boy were in a Romulan lab being milked.

 

[Qonundrum]

I know this a long scene but damn, it's so much better than a lot of what material was left in.

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There's more thought put into Picard's speech about the wine's origins and the dirt and philosophical allusion that arose from that than for most of the rest of the movie. It's mind-boggling that the movie has little gems like these, it does change one's perception... The scene then followed by Data's terrific question regarding ambivalence is just as poignant and adding more purpose and point TO the movie. That is truly a great scene. Why was it removed? Because it wasn't actioney enough? (Action is great, but grounding to give the action more than what's akin to a drug-addled high is far better. Like "lust vs love" and all that.)

 

[ananta]

It doesn’t matter how many years you give it—a turd will always remain…a turd.

 

[cooleddie74]

Of all the Star Trek films from 1979 to 2016 NEM is undoubtedly...the tenth.

 

[Daddy Todd]

OK, so the screenplay leaked online months (maybe a whole year?) before the movie came out. I read it, and thought "Surely they will fix this before it goes in front of the cameras."

Nope. It was the same underwhelming mess on the big screen as on the internet. They cut stuff out (most of it character stuff) and renamed the Data prototype. But yeah, what was scripted was what ended up in theaters. It was terrible. I haven't watched it in a couple decades, but I can't imagine it improving with age.

 

[cooleddie74]

Spiner and Stewart were in over their heads and Baird was a sloppy director for a Star Trek film. Almost none of the math in this movie was going to add up to something really great.