Star Trek: Nemesis at 20 - Has Your Opinion Changed Over the Years?

[FederationHistorian]

One Deleted Scene is brief but references Zefram Cochrane being the origin of the famous Trek narration, making this an ENT reference. One of two in the movie(the other being the U.S.S. Archer sent as part of the fleet to meet up with the Enterprise-E before the Battle of the Bassen Rift).

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Even without the ENT reference - and why would anyone not want their prequel show legitimized by Picard?! – it was a callback to FC. It made no sense to cut that line.

And there’s supposedly 50 minutes of deleted footage out there. Hilarious they cut all of that that to have a shorter film, considering how long films are now. It would be a 2 hour 40 minute watch with the extra footage.

 

[cooleddie74]

NEM is the biggest lost opportunity and mess of the first ten Trek films by almost any measurement. Even TFF was more coherent and had more of a purpose of existing.

 

[Jeyl]

I'll revisit Star Trek V on occasion just because I find that trainwreck of a film fascinating. There is nothing about Nemesis that makes it fascinating to watch. It's less of a trainwreck and more like a corpse slowly rotting away. It used to be alive, it used to be joyful and it used to be original, but now it's dead. What disappoints me the most isn't the fact that it's dead, but that those involved in making the film thought it was what we wanted.

The only thing about Nemesis that I revisit is it's soundtrack. Even with a bad movie, you can still find something good in a Jerry Goldsmith score.

 

[Dukhat]

What disappoints me the most isn't the fact that it's dead, but that those involved in making the film thought it was what we wanted.

And to add insult to injury, after the film bombed Rick Berman made a statement to the effect of, "I guess the fans didn't want a movie about Romulans." Which ultimately showed just how out-of-touch he was with reality. TATV didn't help either.

 

[Mage]

I honestly can't recall what I thought about it back then. If I remember correctly, this didn't come into Dutch cinema's. Or very limited. Or I just didn't have time. I know my first viewing was on dvd and I was already quite spoiled ahead of time. I think that softened the blow a bit.

Right now, I do enjoy some very well done scenes, with some great moments between Picard and Shinzon and a spectacular battle at the end. But as a whole, it just doesn't work.

 

[StarMan]

I don't recall it coming out down here promptly either.

I remember Maid in Manhattan beat it in its opening week. Yikes. When it eventually came out at the theater I skipped it. Insurrection had been a huge letdown after First Contact and honestly - given the multi-month wait - I just waited for the DVD.

I do recall reading the leaked Logan script. I regret we were robbed of Picard screeching "SAVAGE THEM!" in the climactic battle.

What else... "Mr. Worf, prepare a full phaser spread - zero elevation" - that was pretty cool. Overall, it was terrible in both concept and execution. The idea of a human clone successfully usurping control of the Romulan Empire is daft. The whole idea behind cloning Picard was preposterous.

A Generations Final Journey Begins, they said. And now, they're at it again. You have to appreciate the irony in TNG's finale being called All Good Things...

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Damn, did they drop the ball by leaving stuff like this on the cutting room floor….ughhh!

I think this scene was fine dropped. What does it add? What does it tell us about Picard that we don't already know? We've had Picard walking the decks before a battle before ("The Best of Both Worlds") and musing on historical precedent. We've had Picard bemoan what he's become (Insurrection, with one line: "Do you remember when we were explorers?"). The material is a little weak -- Picard randomly walks into Sickbay, waxes philosophic to Crusher, and as he leaves we finally get to the point, Crusher telling Picard that he is not Shinzon -- and Stewart and McFadden do well enough with the material, but nothing here strikes me as necessary.

 

[Sim]

Among other things, a major reason why the movie just didn't work for me, was that I never bought even for a second that Shinzon is a Picard clone. Nothing against Tom Hardy as an actor, but he just doesn't appear remotely similar to Stewart to me. Not sure if it had made a difference or even saved the movie, if Stewart had played both Picard and Shinzon, but the way it was just didn't work, imo.

 

[Jeyl]

And to add insult to injury, after the film bombed Rick Berman made a statement to the effect of, "I guess the fans didn't want a movie about Romulans." Which ultimately showed just how out-of-touch he was with reality. TATV didn't help either.

It wasn't even about Romulans. It was about a Human clone of Picard leading a group of vampires on a quest to destroy Earth. The Remans may have been related to the Romulans, but they were definitely the antagonists to the story than the Romulans were.

Rick Berman really did try to pull a 'Wrath of Khan' with this movie. Emphasis on the antagonist, Picard being past his heyday, the loss of a beloved character, a weapon that can destroy a planet, a battle in a nebula. But there was one thing Rick missed. The Wrath of Khan changed producers when they booted Gene Roddenberry out, where as Rick Berman stayed on as producer. Out were the folks who made were responsible for any good that were in the last three movies and in were the ones that made them bad. I'm still trying to imagine a Star Trek: Insurrection that kept Michael Piller's initial story idea that everyone loved except Patrick Stewart, who demanded it be changed into what Insurrection is today. Rick knew that appeasing Patrick was the wrong way to go given Insurrection's reception, but he doubled down on it.

 

[Dukhat]

It wasn't even about Romulans. It was about a Human clone of Picard leading a group of vampires on a quest to destroy Earth. The Remans may have been related to the Romulans, but they were definitely the antagonists to the story than the Romulans were.

Yes, that's what I meant about Berman not being in touch with reality.

I'm still trying to imagine a Star Trek: Insurrection that kept Michael Piller's initial story idea that everyone loved except Patrick Stewart, who demanded it be changed into what Insurrection is today. Rick knew that appeasing Patrick was the wrong way to go given Insurrection's reception, but he doubled down on it.

That's what happens when you give creative control to your actors rather than the people who are actually making the movies. And judging by the drivel that is Star Trek: Picard, they still haven't learned their lesson even though it's been 20 years since Nemesis ended.

 

[cooleddie74]

I like PIC considerably more than I like NEM but yeah, that doesn't say nearly as much as I wish it did.

 

[ananta]

PIC gets a huge amount of hate—which I get for the messy, half baked second season, but I really liked the first season (although I’ve not rewatched it since it aired). It actually sort of redeemed the sheer misfire of NEM, as an evening for TNG and the crappily mishandled death of Data, at least for me. I’m glad that show exists for that reason alone.

 

[Dukhat]

PIC gets a huge amount of hate—which I get for the messy, half baked second season, but I really liked the first season (although I’ve not rewatched it since it aired). It actually sort of redeemed the sheer misfire of NEM, as an evening for TNG and the crappily mishandled death of Data, at least for me. I’m glad that show exists for that reason alone.

Yes, that was PIC's one redeeming quality; that it gave Data a much better 'second' death than what he had in that movie. Oh, and it was nice to see Hugh again before they unceremoniously killed him off for no good reason, and Picard just shrugs it off like, 'Oh well, too bad. Anyway, back to looking for Data's daughter!'

 

[cooleddie74]

^
I agree with all of the above. And I actually liked Season 1 except for the finale.