star trek nemesis 16th anniversary

[Vger23]

insurrection ended up being virtually nothing, but they did attempt to do something different and not just replicate the tone and scale of first contact. nemesis feels like the producers copping to "ok no one liked insurrection so we should just go back and just do what first contact did". problem was, it was all superficial. they didn't mine what made first contact great, they just took the trappings and left the emotional core behind.

so we get scenes with shinzon saying "resistance is futile" because man wasn't first contact great?

I know I'm in the extreme minority in this opinion, but I actually believe Nemesis has a reasonable emotional core and a good amount of heart in places. To your point, not as well executed as FC...but certainly not non-existent.

And, Insurrection was perhaps different from FC, but it was exactly the same (virtually indestinguishable) from about 170 television episodes...and it didn't really strive to be anything ambitious, which is more what I meant.

 

[pst]

I actually believe Nemesis has a reasonable emotional core and a good amount of heart in places.

i can see where they hoped there would be emotion and heart in nemesis, but it doesn’t hit me like it was intended. i’m glad you get some emotion out of it, i wish i did. i am thankful it turns out nemesis is not the final chapter of my favorite iteration of star trek.

 

[Galileo7]

My favorite part of NEM was the potential in the ending with Picard & B-4...the 1701-E in drydock like the 1701-Refit in TMP. It made me want one more NG film.

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[Terok Nor]

I've only seen it maybe 3 times and there had to be at least 10 years between the 2nd and 3rd times. It was not a fitting send-off for TNG in the slightest. I'm glad Picard at least will be seen again but I'll never not hate that Data is no more.

 

[Terok Nor]

Also Tom Hardy is a horrible actor. I really do not get his popularity at all. His voice was hilariously awful as Bane.

 

[Damian]

I'll never not hate that Data is no more.

It'll be interesting to see if Data's resurrection from either the novels or Countdown comic continuities are incorporated into the nu-TNG show.

 

[pst]

It'll be interesting to see if Data's resurrection from either the novels or Countdown comic continuities are incorporated into the nu-TNG show.

i see two real possibilities there:

1. data's back in B4's body and the show just doesn't get into it (like xavier's return in the wolverine and days of future past after his death and semi-resurrection in x-men the last stand)
2. data's still dead

i'd like to see them either use a digitally de-aged spiner or just have data basically look like spiner now and say he aged/is basically as human as he can get, middle-age spread and all.

 

[DarKush]

If they bring back Data, which I have no problem with, I hope they just have Geordi create a new body for him, and not have Data's resurrection come at the expense of B4's life. I didn't care for that Countdown explanation. It felt like something Data would not have been cool with. Or do something like having Lore sacrifice himself for Data. It gets Data back while tying up the Lore storyline and giving Lore a completed arc.

 

[pst]

I didn't care for that Countdown explanation.

i know it's just a quick memory beta search away, but i'll just ask you since you have an opinion - what's the countdown explanation?

correct me about this, but i'd swear i saw a version of data's resurrection putting him in the enterprise-E computer. or was that my imagination?

 

[DarKush]

i know it's just a quick memory beta search away, but i'll just ask you since you have an opinion - what's the countdown explanation?

correct me about this, but i'd swear i saw a version of data's resurrection putting him in the enterprise-E computer. or was that my imagination?

I would have to look it up myself to get it exactly, but I thought someone else had posted it up the thread. From what I recall, Data's personality overwrote B4, essentially killing him, and Data took over B4's body. Data goes on to become captain of the Enterprise-E.

 

[thribs]

I know people hate this movie but I love it. Especially the score.

 

[plentode]

There's just not much in this film for me to like. Sure it was nice eye candy to see the full battle capabilities of the Enterprise-E. Those effects sequences were and still are magnificent. The score is another top notch effort from Jerry Goldsmith. The way it hearkened back to the TMP score was outstanding, particularly in the final drydock scene. Those things alone aren't enough to make a great film. In the end, it's just a jagged mess that tried too hard to draw emotion and nostalgia out of an audience that was worn out on the Star Trek brand.

 

[Damian]

i know it's just a quick memory beta search away, but i'll just ask you since you have an opinion - what's the countdown explanation?

correct me about this, but i'd swear i saw a version of data's resurrection putting him in the enterprise-E computer. or was that my imagination?

Data's programming that was given to B-4 in Nemesis basically overwrote B-4's programming.

I actually liked the novel explanation better. There Dr Soong had taken an android body just prior to dying in "Family" (or was it 'Brothers'--I always get those two mixed up). Dr Soong finds a way to salvage B-4 who was having problems and he incorporated Data's program and personality into himself. As a result Dr Soong essentially ceases to exist, though all his memories and experiences become part of Data, and in that case Dr Soong chose to sacrifice himself so that Data, his son basically, could live. That was all in the Cold Equations trilogy and I found that much more satisfying.

In a way if they were to keep a resurrected Data the novel explanation would be the better option. Dr Soong's android was much more advanced and looked almost human. They could use that to explain why Data looks older in a nu-TNG show. Plus, even in "All Good Things" Data made himself look a older with his white stripe so it's certainly possible he decides to make himself look older to match Brent Spiner's appearance. But whatever the reason, Spiner's current age shouldn't be a problem in bringing Data on the nu-TNG show as a guest. They can find plenty of ways to explain why Data might look older. The main stumbling blocks would be is Spiner even interested, and also do they decide to leave Data dead.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tasha from 2364 time travels to the future , bangs her boyfriend who doesn't quite have the wits to explain that he is not who she thinks that he is.

 

[pst]

I would have to look it up myself to get it exactly, but I thought someone else had posted it up the thread. From what I recall, Data's personality overwrote B4, essentially killing him, and Data took over B4's body. Data goes on to become captain of the Enterprise-E.

That was all in the Cold Equations trilogy and I found that much more satisfying.

i read data's entry on memory beta last night, so i'm up to speed on the various ways they brought him back (none of them included data acting as the enterprise computer so i guess i dreamed that). but yeah this cold equations version of events basically fits with what i'd want to see: a more human data who doesn't just continue to do the same old data schtick. i also appreciated the notion that starfleet spent a couple years trying to restore him, which i think is pretty reasonable given he's an android and doesn't just feel like a search for spock rehash.

 

[Lance]

Always found that idea a little sad. And not really in keeping with Data's character. Insomuch as B4 had an 'arc' in the movie, it was that Data wanted his brother to be able to start his own development, just as Data had done. The program transfer was intended to give B4 a 'jump start'... Data had no idea he was going to self sacrifice or anything like that, as far as he was concerned his hope was that B4 would simply begin to grow... and nothing in the movie actually suggests Data is overwriting B4, the final scene simply infers that Data's memories exist in B4, not unlike how the Omicron Theta colonists memories all lived on inside Data... it would have been far less clichéd, and far more rewarding ultimately, for Data to stay dead, and for B4 to have started developing as his own, new, individual character... this too would have given Brent Spiner new things to do in hypothetical sequels, new places to go that he no longer felt he could with Data. It feels mean-spirited for the post-Nemesis novels and comic books to have simply overwritten B4 and brought Data back to life. Not to mention being just about the least creative idea they could have come up with.

 

[Damian]

It feels mean-spirited for the post-Nemesis novels and comic books to have simply overwritten B4 and brought Data back to life.

In the novels B-4 still exists. He had a problem with his programming that Dr Soong corrected. He then downloaded Data's essence I guess you would call it. That's what brings Data back. Dr Soong sacrificed his existence for Data, but B-4 continues to exist as a separate entity. I was ok with Dr Soong sacrificing himself that Data could live on. After all he viewed Data as a son and what father wouldn't give his life if his son could live.

But Data in the novels isn't really the same Data we left in Nemesis. Oh, at his core, his 'soul' for lack of a better word, is still Data. But his life has taken a new direction. If Brent Spiner were to guest star in the nu-TNG show as the Data depicted in the relaunch novels, I think you'd find him to be a much different type of character.

 

[jaime]

In the novels B-4 still exists. He had a problem with his programming that Dr Soong corrected. He then downloaded Data's essence I guess you would call it. That's what brings Data back. Dr Soong sacrificed his existence for Data, but B-4 continues to exist as a separate entity. I was ok with Dr Soong sacrificing himself that Data could live on. After all he viewed Data as a son and what father wouldn't give his life if his son could live.

But Data in the novels isn't really the same Data we left in Nemesis. Oh, at his core, his 'soul' for lack of a better word, is still Data. But his life has taken a new direction. If Brent Spiner were to guest star in the nu-TNG show as the Data depicted in the relaunch novels, I think you'd find him to be a much different type of character.

B4 died. Breen android factory or something I think. It’s always the Breen. Don’t forget...it’s David Mack. So Data May have come back, but there’s a slew of bodies on the way there.

 

[USS Firefly]

B4 died. Breen android factory or something I think. It’s always the Breen. Don’t forget...it’s David Mack. So Data May have come back, but there’s a slew of bodies on the way there.

No that was Soong who died while giving his body to Data

 

[jaime]

No that was Soong who died while giving his body to Data

When Soong arrived B4 is in pieces having been used as the template no? And soong can’t put Data in the body he planned, which is why he gives up his body, and can’t do anything for anyone else? I want to say Lals body is retrieved leading to her resurrection, but all I really remember is Worfs curse kicking in again (or the curse of David Mack, since he has tendency particularly for killing off the female love interests of main characters. Data loses his girlfriend, Worf loses Choudhury, Bashir and....just realises I don’t know how to do spoiler tags and this is largely those. Mod fix plz? Ty?)