star trek nemesis 16th anniversary

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by pst, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. pst

    pst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    so i've been going through all the TNG films this month and rewatched nemesis last night. turns out it was released in the US 16 years ago today (december 13, 2002, up against the two towers and the chamber of secrets) and man there's a lot to say about this film.

    from the fact that picard happens to take his space dune buggy down to a planet occupied by aliens who also happen to cruise around in dune buggies to the fact that everyone aboard the enterprise-E has basically been doing the same job for 15 years (even worf came back to his old job after doing bigger and better things) and it just feels sad. don't even get me started on that riker/troi love scene.

    but cinematically speaking, i was surprised by how lousy the film looks compared to first contact and insurrection. while the stuff aboard the scimitar and in the romulan senate is all pretty interesting to look at, the bulk of the film is set aboard the enterprise-E which has gone from being a vibrant setting in the previous two films to looking drab and chintzy. a ton of scenes are shot in the same place from the same angle (geordi's post on the bridge gets way too much action in this film) or shot against flatly-lit blank walls. there's no contrast, there's very little color, and there are few interesting things to just break up the scenery.

    i could go on, but has anyone else subjected themselves to this one recently?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
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  2. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    No, I have not been particularly inclined to subject myself to this lately, and now I really don't want to. Thank you for reminding me of the reasons I don't like NEM.

    Kor
     
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  3. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The memory cheats. I remember this film feeling more theatrical, but I think in hindsight it probably just feels more like its trying to be a popcorn blockbuster... but its done on the cheap, and your observations about how flat and lifeless everything feels are spot on. It's like the script is pulling in a very different direction to the characters... Nemesis in some ways foreshadows the style of the Kelvin-verse movies, there's seemingly a tonal shift here from being movies with action but also heart, to this kind of, action movie, but they're dealing with the legacy of 15 years of these actors and noone is honestly in good shape. It feels like the cast have shown up and are saying their lines but none of 'em are invested anymore. Everything about Nemesis feels so lacking in energy and drive. It doesn't help that IMHO the best scenes are all in the deleted scenes package. It feels like every character scene and every moment that would've given that movie a heart has been ripped out of it and left on the cutting room floor, resulting in a movie that lurches from action set piece to action set piece without any real sense of unity or purpose. The movie needed those deleted scenes. There's more life in those snippets of scenes than there is anywhere in the whole of the actual movie. Sad.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
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  4. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I liked Nemesis. Pretty much tied with FC as my favorite TNG movie.

    :shrug:
     
  5. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    I haven't seen Nemesis in probably 16 years. I should probably give it another rewatch. I've heard people really compliment the soundtrack, but in terms of the film as a whole, it really hasn't been on the must see list.
     
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  6. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The soundtrack is great. It's the best thing about the movie. And the Enterprise smashing into the Scimitar. Some wedding banter at the beginning... And that right there summarizes all the good stuff!
     
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  7. pst

    pst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    i actually find that the kelvin films have way more heart than nemesis, but the sad part is, nemesis is really trying to have a heart while also balancing its darker tone and material... and it totally failed.
    i'll have to rewatch those, but it is a crime they cut wesley's one or two lines and just had him sitting there in the background. oh and they never address why worf is back doing his old day job when right before that he was ambassador to the klingon empire.
    i appreciate the use of goldsmith's "adversity theme" from the final frontier and first contact (and very subtly in insurrection) and the blade runner-esque electronics but (not to contradict @Lord Garth) i find the score for nemesis to be just as limp as the rest of the film. it might be the recording, but it's sort of flat and the end credits performance of the motion picture/TNG theme is really strained compared to the previous two films' recording of the same piece.

    play the rousing version from insurrection and the strained, off-key version from nemesis back to back and you'll hear what i'm talking about.
     
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  8. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Hardy's performance. In fact, I think it's better than Bane.
     
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  9. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. pst

    pst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    i was thinking that while watching last night.

    i mean, sometimes it felt like hardy was in a totally different movie than the rest of the cast and it's real weird watching him interact with brent spiner looking just so sad and fat as B4, but yeah, tom hardy did some real heavy lifting with that one.
     
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  11. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Dolph did it better.

    [​IMG]

    Nailed it.
     
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  12. IMJ

    IMJ Cadet Newbie

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    I remember sitting in the theater for this flick being excited for it at the time. And while it was running I remember thinking across the movie that maybe this was bringing a modern approach to Star Trek TNG the way that Khan had for the original crew. For example, the great sound construction with Picard's voice echoing across the inner-ship con was very cinematic and created size on the Enterprise, and at the time VFX looked great because the ships moved in dynamic ways in space with a green nebula and space fields that gave depth to the flight shots. Any the fight to escape the Scimitar was exciting upon first watch.

    There were other little things here and there, but as the movie unfolded and I got past what I wanted to be a great film, it wrapped up and I remember leaving the theater sort of depressed at the whole thing. Trying to wrap my head around why they needed a Picard clone for this instead of just going full tilt and showing us more of the Romulan empire, and basically so much of the other nonsense in that movie.

    I held on to hope for years that this was the first part of a TNG trilogy that would appropriately end things for them. That the next movie would be a Data-driven "Search for Spock". Hell, even the Nemesis poster says "A Generations Final Journey Begins" and not "A Generations Final Journey". And so with the hope that Nemesis was a mediocre start to a final three films, I figured "no big deal".

    But then everything went the way it did, and as far as I can tell the closest thing to a truly canon follow-up was the Star Trek: Countdown graphic novel which only has continuity merit because it is the approved prequel to ST2009. But for 16 years now Nemesis has been that break-up with the girl you loved and you know you were supposed to get back together and make things right, but never have....
     
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  13. pst

    pst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    maybe 2019's picard trek will rekindle your love.

    this is the first time i've watched nemesis in a long time, so it was kind of funny having it in the back of my mind that, for the first time in 16 years, nemesis isn't the last time we'll be seeing at least one of these characters.
     
  14. IMJ

    IMJ Cadet Newbie

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    I am so excited about the Picard show.... I sincerely hope that up front it wraps up as many Nemesis loose ends as possible instead of any kind of Enterprise wait for 3 seasons sort of thing for it to pop. But I really am hopefully that the Picard show is "Star Trek for Gen Xers" because I couldn't stomach more than two episodes of "Star Trek For Millenials". I tried.
     
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  15. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nope. I'm not that masochistic, and life is too short. I do my best to just forget it and move on.

    I own TMP, TWOK, TSFS, TVH, TFF, TUC, GEN, and FC on DVD, and recently bought the original cast movies on BluRay. Even the movies I don't like much (TMP, TFF, and GEN) have their moments or the DVDs had some extras I was interested in. INS and NEM have absolutely nothing to recommend them, IMO.
     
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  16. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

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    I wish B4 was actually Lore; where would the film go if that was the case?
     
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  17. pst

    pst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    much more interesting places.

    lore is closer to the theme of the film (how experiences shape a person to be who they are) and would've been far less embarrassing than B4. lore also might've brought some much needed humor and energy to the film.
     
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  18. Sareesataka

    Sareesataka Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I haven't watched Nemesis in its entirety since it came out on DVD, probably 15 years ago. I've tried watching it a couple of times in the last decade or so, but never got past the first 10 minutes. I guess I have to get in the right mindset to watch it.
     
  19. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    You're wrong. It's still embarrassing after.
     
  20. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

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    My feelings exactly. I'd watch it over several of the TOS films too.