star trek nemesis 16th anniversary

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by pst, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I thought B-4 was salvaged as part of the resurrection of Data. I didn't recall his part in the Breen 'incident' but I looked it up on Memory Beta and yes, B-4 was captured by the Breen and rescued. Soong removed Data's memories from B-4 because it was causing problems for B-4 and that's how Soong resurrected Data into himself. B-4 then returned to the Daystrom Institute by his own choice to help Dr Maddox (who was the one that rallied to B-4's right to self determination).

    Lal is also revived though, yes. She is with Data, though she, like most girls her age ;) has a mind of her own. But Data managed to do that with the help of Flint (now known as Vaslovik--forgive me if I spelled that wrong) who had revived Data's mother already.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  2. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As an aside I liked Dr Maddox' turn (which actually did have it's beginnings after he lost his case). He went from trying to deny Data's his rights to being an advocate for android, and even certain hologram rights (something I remember in the novels that impressed Dr Soong when he learned of Maddox' change of heart).
     
  3. mozartpc27

    mozartpc27 Cadet Newbie

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    I had what I would term a passing interest in Star Trek for many years but mostly in the original series. Lately, however, my wife got me to watch the entire run of The Next Generation and while she has shown no interest in going further, I went on to DS9 (I am in season 5 now) and I have watched all the next generation movies for the first time, concluding with Nemesis last night.

    And I am of two minds: from the standpoint of being a single, stand alone movie, I actually thought Nemesis the best of the TNG films. There is a dark sense of foreboding, tension, a compelling villain, etc. I was more engaged with it than I had been with any of the others.

    On the other hand, the ending is a weird downer, the whole Data thing is convoluted anyway, and outside of Picard and Data the characters aren’t given much to do. Does Whoopi Goldberg actually appear in this film without a spoken line of dialogue?

    I’ve read about it now and the problems with the director, etc., which explain some of the problems. But I do think, taken as just a one-off movie, it hangs together better than the others for the most part. Shoulda gotten Nicholas Meyer to direct.
     
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  4. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    She has a bit of dialogue when she's talking to Geordi and Worf. Geordi asks if she would ever marry again and she said she basically had enough after so many (I forget the exact number) and they both comment to Worf about his reaction to Romulan Ale.

    Wesley doesn't have any dialogue in the finished film. The deleted scenes have him state he was assigned to the Titan (though it's not explained how he was back in Starfleet and the novels that followed the movie ignored the deleted scene)
     
  5. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Or why Worf is back at his bridge post after wanting to become an ambassador (It's what he always wanted).
    Or how the Remans, who were nothing but cave miners and canon fodder managed to surpass the Romulans on a technological level.
    Or that one time-


    ...No, forget all that. For a movie that actually takes screen time to make a point that the events of one's life is what shapes them to be the person they are, how come one of the biggest life-changing moments for Picard, getting stabbed through the heart, is completely overlooked?! Picard had 'tangible' proof to justify his point with Shinzon and the film just actually thinks Picard has a real heart! This is NOT a film that compliments character!
     
  6. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm not sure being an ambassador was what he always wanted. I think what he really wanted was to be treated as a true Klingon. But yeah, they totally ignored his change in career at the end of Deep Space Nine. It wouldn't have hurt to have a brief line to explain his return.

    Another area where the novels came to some assistance (in this case the A Time To... novels).

    I liked Nemesis, though I freely acknowledge it's not a perfect film. It has a number of holes that probably could have been closed with a minimum of dialogue.
     
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  7. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The script did provide such a line ("The life of an ambassador did not agree with me!", IIRC) but as with many such holes in the story, director Stuart Baird cut it out. :D

    I'm not saying the script is a masterwork. It's not. But there is a lot of material on the page that hasn't even surfaced in the deleted scenes packages (whether it was ever filmed, or was removed before reaching the camera, I don't know). Lots of little character/continuity moments. There's another moderately amusing scene that acknowledges that Worf and Troi dated for a while, too. ;)
     
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  8. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Sounds more and more like character moments were specifically targets for removal if it didn't involve Picard and/or Data. While moments like this would have been appreciated, I highly doubt it would have saved the film from being in my bad list. There are just way too many problematic and downright disgusting acts that really have no place in a grand finals Star Trek story.
     
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  9. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, I think I read it on the Memory Alpha page for the movie where it said a lot of the character moments were removed.
     
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  10. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It wasn't even specifically about favouring Picard and Data, either. Two very important character moments featuring those characters were cut from the movie -- the two of them discussing mortality in the captain's quarters, and a later scene with Data and B-4 in the ships lounge that more clearly demonstrates Data's yearning to help his brother -- both of them great character moments that actually enhance the plot, both ripped from the movie. Yet the dune buggy and shoot 'em up sequences on the Scimitar are both still there...
     
  11. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was ok with the Scimitar sequence for the most part. We did see a bit of the old Data from the show when he's trying to explain the complexities of the Reman language while they were being shot at. I also get a smile out of Picard's reaction when Data asks if he wants him (Data) to drive.

    But the whole Kolarus scene was cringeworthy, and I wasn't a big fan of the B-4 plot, though that was needed to leave some hope of Data's eventual resurrection.
     
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  12. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I will say that Nemesis could have been so much better with a decent edit. Cut the superfluous Argo fight, tighten up the battle at the end, and reinsert half the character moments that they cut, and it wouldn't be bad. It may not be good, but it wouldn't be bad. ;)
     
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  13. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I still like this movie.
     
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  14. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Commodore Commodore

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    Or TOS for "Star Trek for Boomers and Silent Generationers", but let's face it and who hasn't imagined the following quotation: "I'm a millennial so I demand what that news article said last week about us!" is the best sort of comic relief. Then again, I prefer maturely scripted Trek for a wider age range array instead of luring audiences by having Cadet B.F. Tilley say the effenheimer for no reason. At least her CO had a look of disapproval on his face before realizing the child's attitude was apparently the only correct one so he promptly went down to her level, making us all wish the same level of quality writing went into Wesley Crusher. (Yes, "B.F." stands for "Burger Flipper" but most of the characters feel inauthentic, no engineer would be using slang like "tech" for another example as if he just graduated iPhone University or something...)
     
  15. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Commodore Commodore

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    The ramming scene, which proves all the science advisers for the show had long left by this point (though the term "perigee" was put in because it sounded cooler than the original word intended, source: documentary on season 3 DVD from 2004 or so... or one of the nonfiction making-of books, time flies so fast...)

    Oops, she's done it with Data again?! :eek:
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Data is dead.

    I have no memory of writing that, but I'm sure I was hinting about B4 getting his cherry popped.