Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 2x10 - "First First Contact"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Lower Decks' started by Commander Richard, Oct 13, 2021.


Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Excelsior!

  2. 9

  3. 8

  4. 7

  5. 6

  6. 5

  7. 4

  8. 3

  9. 2

  10. 1 - Terrible.

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  1. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 16, 2003
    Two of those scenarios came from within Starfleet itself - wasn't an outside threat.
    Moriarty gained computer access due to the computer creating a sentient hologram capable of defeating Data... by its very nature it needed computer control/access to do that.

    Be'Lana's ex was Starfleet... and as we saw, he was quite adept at Starfleet computer manipulation - but then, any Starfleet officer with his intent would probably be able to do the same - VOY crew didn't resort to that because they weren't as desperate as the Equinox crew.

    As for the Klingons using a program... yeah, too bad they hadn't thought of dismantling the outer hull instead... would have blown up the ship while its at Warp or once it jumped to Warp.
    Or why not instead cause the program to go into the armory systems and blow up the Photonic torpedoes? would have likely been faster (and possibly easier).
    Having the ship consistently increasing speed until it blows up... meh... it wasn't a bad attempt, but out of different hacking attempts, that was not particularly good... it gave the crew time to fix the problem - and the program still had to have been installed manually (as opposed transferred wirelessly from their own ship).
  2. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 24, 2012
    Sometimes security vulnerabilities doesn't give you entire Administrator Access.

    Many of times, there are one of vulnerabilities, this doesn't need to be one of them.

    As far as the Torpedoes, those are probably isolated AirGapped systems, so you physically have to enter the Torpedo Room to tinker with the Torpedoes.

    As far as the DOT's, ask Mike McMahon on Twitter =D
  3. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 2, 2017
    I think we know they have feels for one another, but we don't really know if they are sexually attracted to one another.

    Rutherford appears to be interested in women, judging by his interest in Ensign Barnes. But we don't know if he thinks about Tendi in that way.

    Tendi - she could be a lesbian for all we know. Or my favorite idea - she's asexual, which will play against the stereotypes of Orion women.
  4. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Feb 22, 2020
    Sheer Fucking Hubris
    True, but I think they're just drawing out that "will-they-won't-they" dynamic as long as they can.
  5. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 24, 2012
    Still a computer vulnerability, threats don't necessarilly always come from outside.

    And that's a fundamental problem if a HoloDeck has that much control/access.

    I'm sure they fixed that issue by now, but still.

    But there should be personal limits on what he can access.

    That's the security vulnerability they had access to, it's not like a dinner menu where you can choose what vulnerability you want to use and order it up.

    Because the Photonic Torpedoes Electronics are probably Air Gapped and require you to be physically in the room do do anything with them short of firing them out of the tube and remote arming them once they egress from the tube.

    You don't get to choose your security vulnerabilities, that's not how it works.
  6. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 16, 2003
    Pretty sure that removal of outer hull would require full administrative access. Its a rather important part of the ship.

    Since the torpedoes can be fired and modified from the bridge easily via Tactical station, I would have to say that physical access is NOT required - if anything, that sub-system would probably be more heavily protected... similar like the outer hull plating.

    I don't really use Twitter that much... I'm just saying that since LD aired when it did, DOT's could have been integrated and seen in S2. And TNG mentioned a great deal of automation onboard the Galaxy class... and that was over a decade before the Cerritos.
  7. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 24, 2012
    It's not common enough that you need it to be a programmed function.

    They can change the Torpedo Payload via the remote UI, but they can't just press a button and make it blow up while inside the ship.

    The program is designed under a very specific set of parameters.


    Go ask Mike McMahon =D
  8. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 16, 2003
    I don't really count this as a security vulnerabiltiy as such. Perhaps SF at the time couldn't predict this kind of interaction in order to better isolate the holodeck from the rest of the ship.
    Or, the holodeck never DID have that kind of access by itself... but, the very NATURE of the request (how it was structured) GAVE Moriarty access because verbal interfaces are there to allow SF crew to interact with the computer from anywhere.

    But we have seen in VOY that certain sub-systems don't have acces to higher functions... so yes, I'd imagine the issue was corrected at a later time.

    He's SF. He knows how to use SF computer systems. VOY's systems may be more advanced, but they are probably structured in a similar capacity as the Equinox, so the main difference would be in speed and efficiency.
    Besides, Be'lanna doesn't remember EVERY single thing she did during her life. For her ex, he resorted to rather questionable and unethical methods for the sake of survival in the D.Q. Depending on how long the ship would have been in that situation, Ransom's crew would probably have more experience in certain fields due to them fighting for their lives most of the time.

    And how did they know about that security vulnerability in the first place?
    Its not much of a vulnerability when it requires direct access to the system as opposed to being able to transmit the program remotely.

    Already covered that before and I still say the answer to that would likely be 'no'. But in the case of Enterprise NX-01, since the Klingons had to interact with the system in question directly to install the chip with the malicious program, again, they could have gone to the armory instead and disrupt a Photonic torpedo enough and just have it blow up inside the ship.

    You kinda do when you are hatching a plan as to which system you want to hit. The Klingons had to plan it out and pick their targets... in this instance, going to engineering and using the Warp core may have been a mistake if you ask me.
  9. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 16, 2003
    Doesn't have to be common to be done remotely or via automation.

    Actually, they can do quite a lot more from the bridge as we've seen them do it... and if the torpedo payload can be modified from the bridge like we saw it can, then making it blow up inside the ship should defintely be doable (maybe a bit more difficult though since it would be a vast security breach after all... but again, a hacker working remotely gaining access to so many systems would probably have no issue with that.

    Its just that no sane SF officer would dare try to explode the torpedo INSIDE the ship itself...
  10. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 24, 2012
    But certain privleges shouldn't be given to somebody just because they're in StarFleet.
    B'Elanna's ex shouldn't have that many priveleges to Voyagers sub systems.

    He's part of the Equinoxes crew, so he should be administratively limited to the Equinox.

    That's part of bad security practices to give to many access privleges.

    Black market dealer leaks all sorts of info.

    Just because you have physical access, doesn't mean the computer gives you full control or any control.

    If you design it correctly, the enemy wouldn't be able to do much to the computer, even with physical access.

    Yet they didn't, probably because they didn't have access codes or the schematics to do so.

    Even if you're hatching a plan, you need info on the weak system to target.

    You don't always get the info that you want.

    You make do with the info you have access to and work a plan around it.
    SolarisOne likes this.
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 11, 2014
    Raining and Pouring
    No. Just no.
    Yes, please get rid of the main character from your show. You know, a character people might actually be interested in seeing them develop or engaged with in some manner. I love family therapy happening off screen. It's my favorite type of character development. :vulcan:
    Internal threat not external. Data also took over the ships systems and was able to duplicate Picard's voice so any security feature was useless. Security will fail when dramatically necessary.
    LizStargaryen and Commander Troi like this.
  12. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 24, 2012
    Obviously, they didn't choose that route, and I'm fine with it.

    And that's why you don't create that level of remote functionality so that some hacker could randomly access it to do that.

    How many times have SF officer's been infected by something that compromises their judgement?

    I'm sure it's ALOT of times.
  13. Paul755

    Paul755 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jul 21, 2018
    Tendi/Rutherford feels like it will end up being one of those unfulfilled love/romance deals, like Picard and Crusher.
  14. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 19, 2013
    Bad Thoughts
    Hasn't she always been trying to prove that she is not the stereotype? I would think that she would doubt any affection that anyone might direct toward her for fear that they would be no more than a manifestation of her pheromones.
  15. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

    Jul 24, 2011
    Commander Troi likes this.
  16. Hawku

    Hawku Captain Captain

    Nov 7, 2005
    Ontario, Canada
    Haha, I just wrote a fanfic that involved visiting Cetacean ops! Loved seeing it on the Cerritos.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
  17. Jadeb

    Jadeb Commodore Commodore

    Jul 11, 2017
    I’m agnostic on the debate over how hull plating should be removed in-universe, but, boy, did I enjoy seeing it. Such a cool, crazy concept for an episode. People like to claim episodic Trek is tapped out, but this episode was jam-packed with interesting ideas.
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 11, 2014
    Raining and Pouring
    It's only tapped out if it treats things like nothing matters and ignores it going forward, like past Trek would do. If you can make episodic work and carry it forward then more power to you. I don't trust most writers to do that with episodic nature. Ignoring this is easier.
    777 and jackoverfull like this.
  19. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

    Dec 27, 2002
    Not just a solid Lower Decks episode but a solid Star Trek episode overall. Could you imagine if they did this in live action? It would be epic.
    The episode was a lot of fun to watch. I like watching the crew working together, I like when it sometimes gets a bit serious like this but still has comedic moments. I'm really pleased that these last few episodes are knocking it out of the park. How long do we have to wait for season 3?
    LizStargaryen and Commander Troi like this.
  20. Amaris

    Amaris Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Dec 25, 2002
    United States

    Firstly, the visuals in this episode are absolutely stunning. If they wanted to convince me of what they could do, this episode would have done it. I am forever impressed by the level of visual artistry poured into this show, and it's all the better for it. It's a cartoon that gets cinematic quality work. Everything from the hull plating being removed, to the shock wave from the solar flare and planetoid colliding was magnificent work.

    Secondly, how awesome was that hull plating removal sequence?! We got to see the Captain's Yacht, Cetacean Ops, Mariner being rescued by Jen (I'm now shipping them), and so many other sequences that really made for a slam bang season finale, and what about that ending? That one was unexpected, and of course they leave us on a cliffhanger.

    Character wise, there was so much payoff from the past two seasons. It was gratifying to see the officers and lower decks become unified to overcome a truly dangerous situation.

    Of course, I loved seeing Sonya Gomez back, and I love the Excelsior class ships. I don't see why they wouldn't use older designs anyway, since all that truly matters is the types of materials and technology used to build it. So makes sense to me they would be in service, just updated and retrofitted as necessary.

    We get some new openers in the political intrigue department, like "Rutherford's implant may be installed by Section 31," and "can I see the rubber ducky room?" Also, how cute that Rutherford doesn't want to forget Tendi so he makes multiple backups. D'aww.

    Lots of great lines this episode, too:

    Tendi: "To work on the bridge, like Jadzia Dax?"
    Dr. T'ana: "Who the f**k is that, I don’t know who that is, like Spock!"
    (also she purrs when Tendi hugs her! *squee*)
    Shaxs: "You are lucky I am so spiritually centered, or I’d snap!"

    Anyway, terrific, terrific episode, definitely a solid season ending cliffhanger, and is it season 3 yet? Where's season 3?