STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
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"Qualified" is a nebulous word.
What I posted is that unless you've seen the movie your opinion of it as a movie is uninformed. You cannot comment in a knowledgeable matter on an experience which you have not had, and therefore there's no reason to give your opinion the same weight one would the opinion of someone who has seen the film.
No, it is not. Everything "counts," and you still don't demonstrate an awareness of the differences between story and plot.
I thought it was decidedly average. The plot and special effects were fine but once we are told who and what John Harrison was it started becoming a drinking game to see how many old-Trek references you could fit into the movie.
It kinda felt like Iron Man 2; the really good bits didn't last very long and they were on the trailer anyway.
Leonard Nimoy's cameo was silly. "I told you I wouldn't say anything about Khan. But let me just tell you about him." It also highlighted the flaws that seem to crop up in Abrams' movies; stuff doesn't work unless it needs to. They can't communicate with Kirk on the Vengeance, lose track of Harrison who is only a few hundred metres from the ship and yet they're able to place a direct call to New Vulcan?
The ship sizes are all over the place. Enterprise is still huge. Vengeance is even bigger. And yet the port Kirk and Khan aim for is on deck 13. Which is halfway up the engineering hull. So basically the Vengeance is the size of Voyager.
Also, they're clearly in lunar orbit (an establishing shot shot the Earth clearly in the background, at least 350,000km away) and all of a sudden they jump Lagrangian points and are now in a deep gravity well...
It was ok but had it's flaws. The ending was very weak.
It kinda felt like Iron Man 2; the really good bits didn't last very long and they were on the trailer anyway.
Leonard Nimoy's cameo was silly. "I told you I wouldn't say anything about Khan. But let me just tell you about him." It also highlighted the flaws that seem to crop up in Abrams' movies; stuff doesn't work unless it needs to. They can't communicate with Kirk on the Vengeance, lose track of Harrison who is only a few hundred metres from the ship and yet they're able to place a direct call to New Vulcan?
The ship sizes are all over the place. Enterprise is still huge. Vengeance is even bigger. And yet the port Kirk and Khan aim for is on deck 13. Which is halfway up the engineering hull. So basically the Vengeance is the size of Voyager.
Also, they're clearly in lunar orbit (an establishing shot shot the Earth clearly in the background, at least 350,000km away) and all of a sudden they jump Lagrangian points and are now in a deep gravity well...
It was ok but had it's flaws. The ending was very weak.
Perhaps when it comes to very negative comments on a Trek board yes, in any event basher or gusher comments coming from people who have never seen the movie, are basing their comments on pure emotions one way or another.
Let's put the shoe on the other foot, let's say you see a movie that you like, but somebody has seen the trailers and knows the plot, but has not seen the movie, and says they don't like it and it sucks.
Would you not admonish that person to first see the movie then make an INFORMED opinion ?
I saw the American IMAX 3D premiere last night. I went in wanting to love this movie. I avoided all the spoilers. I left incredibly disappointed. I found the movie pandering, gimmicky, poor attention to detail, and just a lazy treatment. I can deal with my beloved franchise being re-booted or re-imagined. I just wish it was being done with original stories.
Even with the far-fetched and poorly thought out volcano scenes, I found what immediately followed to show promise. However, my hopes were quickly dashed. And then, there seemed a moment where Khan actually may have been re-invented as a sympathetic character who took offense to Section 31 using him and his crew for their own purposes. Again, those hopes were soon dashed as he quickly reverted back to a two dimensional villain.
All in all a fun sci-fi movie for new fans. But, I stand by my opinion of it being lazy writing, pandering, gimmicky, and just lacking the heart of the original material.
My grade = C to C-
Even with the far-fetched and poorly thought out volcano scenes, I found what immediately followed to show promise. However, my hopes were quickly dashed. And then, there seemed a moment where Khan actually may have been re-invented as a sympathetic character who took offense to Section 31 using him and his crew for their own purposes. Again, those hopes were soon dashed as he quickly reverted back to a two dimensional villain.
All in all a fun sci-fi movie for new fans. But, I stand by my opinion of it being lazy writing, pandering, gimmicky, and just lacking the heart of the original material.
My grade = C to C-
A
Amaris
Guest
Yeah, it's not "I saw it and I didn't like it," that gets the scoffing criticism, it's the "I haven't seen it and I hate it, and I hope it fails, and I'll never ever never no not ever never see it ever!" crowd.
That's a little harsh, IM2 has to be the worst summer blockbuster I've ever seen. I think if it had the amount of talking and courtroom scenes as IM2 a lot of people on here would've liked it better
That's why I clarified it with the comment of 'good bits' being few and far between.
One of the only things I did thoroughly enjoy...the pacing.
I said I'd leave, but I couldn't resist. Here's a list I compiled:
20 things wrong with Star Trek Into Darkness:
1. Khan is a MacGuffin... you could literally leave him as John Harrison, remove the people from cryotubes and it would have been an infinitely more sensical movie
2. Why doesn't anyone know who Khan is? He is literally the historical equivalent of Adolf Hitler, Genghis Khan, Josef Stalin, etc... probably WORSE
3. What? You have a problem Spock? Put in a collect call to Old Spock and he'll just give you some exposition bordering on the fourth wall
4. Oh yeah, we managed to cure death... I'm surprised they weren't throwing Khan a frikin parade at the end!
5. Oh yeah... we can also beam anywhere in the galaxy now apparently... why do we need ships anymore?
6. I can accept Kirk being made Captain of the most advanced ship in the fleet straight out of college, but you're telling me that as punishment he's threatened by Pike to be sent BACK to college??
7. Magic Death-Curing Blood: You need it to save Kirk... why don't you get it from ANY OF THE 72 OTHER POPSICLES YOU HAVE ON YOUR SHIP??
8. Khan Noonien Singh is Sikh... I haven't met a lot of white english Sikh men born in 1970. A problem especially considering (although yes I know Montalban is a Spaniard), the timeline hadn't yet branched when Khan was born and Khan should probably at least look SIMILAR to the one from TWOK
9. People creamed all over this movie for the same reasons they flung steaming piles of at Star Trek Nemesis
10. Spock is clearly the better officer... why is Kirk getting command of the Enterprise? Not once, but TWICE!? Because he goes with his "gut..." I heard someone essentially call him the G.W. Bush of the Abramsverse... seems about accurate.
11. DS9 made a point about section 31 being purposefully decentralized to avoid events like the very bombing that took them out in this movie...
12. You're ordered to abandon ship and the crew refuses to comply... Their staying behind served no useful function in restoring power to the ship.
13. It's spelled Qo'Nos!!!
14. Praxis? If it has exploded already, should the Klingons not be on their knees at this stage?
15. The back half of the movie, you are asked to sympathize with Khan as he just wants to save his family... but nope, the ending just keeps him a maniacal looney. They should have just kept him as a gentlemanly nutter from the beginning to be more true to the character
16. Kirk's death... ultimately meaningless. I expect this kind of shit from Joss Whedon!
17. Carol Marcus serves no function at all to the story, except that we get to see her in her skivvies... ok, so that has an upside
18. Uhura's moment to shine with her skills, literally the only moment in the movie that suggested that maybe intellect would win over brawn, is shat on by a gunfight
19. Literally all of the banter between the big 3 was forced. It was arguing for arguing's sake. Bones was reduced from trusted advisor to smartass... for shame
20. Why did the Vengeance officer wait 6 minutes to shoot Scotty? All the while listening to Kirk's specific instructions on boarding the ship over the comm? Speaking of which, Kirk's body would have been pulverized into chunky salsa with that landing
20 things wrong with Star Trek Into Darkness:
1. Khan is a MacGuffin... you could literally leave him as John Harrison, remove the people from cryotubes and it would have been an infinitely more sensical movie
2. Why doesn't anyone know who Khan is? He is literally the historical equivalent of Adolf Hitler, Genghis Khan, Josef Stalin, etc... probably WORSE
3. What? You have a problem Spock? Put in a collect call to Old Spock and he'll just give you some exposition bordering on the fourth wall
4. Oh yeah, we managed to cure death... I'm surprised they weren't throwing Khan a frikin parade at the end!
5. Oh yeah... we can also beam anywhere in the galaxy now apparently... why do we need ships anymore?
6. I can accept Kirk being made Captain of the most advanced ship in the fleet straight out of college, but you're telling me that as punishment he's threatened by Pike to be sent BACK to college??
7. Magic Death-Curing Blood: You need it to save Kirk... why don't you get it from ANY OF THE 72 OTHER POPSICLES YOU HAVE ON YOUR SHIP??
8. Khan Noonien Singh is Sikh... I haven't met a lot of white english Sikh men born in 1970. A problem especially considering (although yes I know Montalban is a Spaniard), the timeline hadn't yet branched when Khan was born and Khan should probably at least look SIMILAR to the one from TWOK
9. People creamed all over this movie for the same reasons they flung steaming piles of at Star Trek Nemesis
10. Spock is clearly the better officer... why is Kirk getting command of the Enterprise? Not once, but TWICE!? Because he goes with his "gut..." I heard someone essentially call him the G.W. Bush of the Abramsverse... seems about accurate.
11. DS9 made a point about section 31 being purposefully decentralized to avoid events like the very bombing that took them out in this movie...
12. You're ordered to abandon ship and the crew refuses to comply... Their staying behind served no useful function in restoring power to the ship.
13. It's spelled Qo'Nos!!!
14. Praxis? If it has exploded already, should the Klingons not be on their knees at this stage?
15. The back half of the movie, you are asked to sympathize with Khan as he just wants to save his family... but nope, the ending just keeps him a maniacal looney. They should have just kept him as a gentlemanly nutter from the beginning to be more true to the character
16. Kirk's death... ultimately meaningless. I expect this kind of shit from Joss Whedon!
17. Carol Marcus serves no function at all to the story, except that we get to see her in her skivvies... ok, so that has an upside
18. Uhura's moment to shine with her skills, literally the only moment in the movie that suggested that maybe intellect would win over brawn, is shat on by a gunfight
19. Literally all of the banter between the big 3 was forced. It was arguing for arguing's sake. Bones was reduced from trusted advisor to smartass... for shame
20. Why did the Vengeance officer wait 6 minutes to shoot Scotty? All the while listening to Kirk's specific instructions on boarding the ship over the comm? Speaking of which, Kirk's body would have been pulverized into chunky salsa with that landing
I'll just pick one:
See The Changeling (TOS), The Neutral Zone (TNG) and Star Trek III: The Search for Spock.
See The Changeling (TOS), The Neutral Zone (TNG) and Star Trek III: The Search for Spock.
In The Neutral Zone, three people with three different ailments who all died three hundred years prior were all brought back to life with seemingly no issues.
just saw the movie. it was awesome. don't care about the fact that Khan was white. Benedict Cumberbatch did an awesome job. will see this movie a couple more times.
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