STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[M'Sharak]

But luckily I have you to explain it all to me, gornsky.

Pray tell, oh Prince of Doucheness, what nuggets of wisdom you have to bequeath the rest of us mere mortals.

Infraction for flaming. [highlight]Comments to PM.[/highlight] Let's leave the personal remarks at the door, please.

Does this mean GORNSKY shouldn't have to elaborate on his evaluation of the other guy's moviegoing skills?

Y'know, to prove it is somehow in accordance with all those, 'it's about the movie not the poster' posting guidelines.

Emphasis mine.

You know better, trevanian. Pull a stunt like this again and it'll be a warning.

 

[Amaris]

That is what Kirk says. The ceremony at the end is to commemorate "those who lost their lives a year ago."

Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[trevanian]

You're grossly exaggerting her damage. One portion of the aft starboard quarter of the saucer was opened up, one breach to the starboard side of engineering, the outer casing of the starboard nacelle, parts of the casing of the port, damage to the impulse deck and a misalignment of the warp core.

The hull breaches were only so deep, and the critical components of her were intact throughout. The black hole in the last film caused shipwide stress fractures and the loss of all 6 dilithium chambers, not to mention nearly burning the nacelles out.

As we see at the end of the movie, they've only had to work maybe a month, two at most, to repair her and even fully replace the impulse drive. Obviously they not only work fast, but can patch up that kind of damage with little effort.

Losing an entire nacelle, half the saucer, maybe the deflector assembly or a massive burnout of the entire warp drive might prompt another think about reactivating her, but apparently her repair was a breeze for them.

And the line about "nearly a year ago" is Kirk referencing him taking command of her for the first time, the epilouge in the hospital is two weeks later, the start of the 5 year mission only a month or two.

No the structural damage to her bones is actually in reality faaar worse. The amount of torque on her in upper atmosphere with no power is bad brother
And how am I exaggerating the entire front third of the primary hull on fire and twisting as she fell into The atmosphere.fire damage is a bitch
So you are saying they fixed all that in more in a couple months? Ha ha ha

The ship, while falling through the atmosphere, managed to right herself with her thrusters. That is an ENORMOUS amount of lift and strain on the hull, and yet it survived. So I doubt the damage was as bad as it seemed.

'Survived' and remaining spaceworthy are probably worlds apart. USS LIBERTY, a LIBERTY class boat used for intelligence gathering in the 60s, took a torpedo hit after being strafed and napalmed by the Israelis and somehow stayed afloat, but it was sold for scrap.

The very strain on the hull you mention would presumably impose greater structural damage than had come from the attack. Unless the hull is made from adobe (see old SNL car commercial to get the full joke there) or is a material that you can just heat to reshape, it certainly sounds like very serious problems.

Then again, they can always use the 'this is x-years from now, it'll be different then' defense. It sure got trotted out enough for the built-on-Earth-so-you-can-calibrate-warpengines-in-a-gravity-well horseshit.

 

[Amaris]

No the structural damage to her bones is actually in reality faaar worse. The amount of torque on her in upper atmosphere with no power is bad brother
And how am I exaggerating the entire front third of the primary hull on fire and twisting as she fell into The atmosphere.fire damage is a bitch
So you are saying they fixed all that in more in a couple months? Ha ha ha

The ship, while falling through the atmosphere, managed to right herself with her thrusters. That is an ENORMOUS amount of lift and strain on the hull, and yet it survived. So I doubt the damage was as bad as it seemed.

'Survived' and remaining spaceworthy are probably worlds apart. USS LIBERTY, a LIBERTY class boat used for intelligence gathering in the 60s, took a torpedo hit after being strafed and napalmed by the Israelis and somehow stayed afloat, but it was sold for scrap.

The very strain on the hull you mention would presumably impose greater structural damage than had come from the attack. Unless the hull is made from adobe (see old SNL car commercial to get the full joke there) or is a material that you can just heat to reshape, it certainly sounds like very serious problems.

Then again, they can always use the 'this is x-years from now, it'll be different then' defense. It sure got trotted out enough for the built-on-Earth-so-you-can-calibrate-warpengines-in-a-gravity-well horseshit.

In a world where they can deconstruct people on the quantum level and reassemble them, intact and functioning normally, a great distance away, I'm not really going to question their ability to build and repair their faster-than-light starships.

 

[BillJ]

Boy, I didn't think it possible for J.J. Abrams to simultaneously piss, shit and vomit on Roddenberry's tombstone or whatever it is he has. I'm not kidding.

Oh, wait... Yes, I am kidding!

The movie was nothing short of spectacular from beginning to end and I can't wait to see it again tonight with the wife!

I do have a few nits, a curiosity and a couple of observations.

Curiosity: they never did explain why the Enterprise needed to hide in the ocean on Niburu. It would've been nice to have a reason for hiding a starship there. I know the real world reason was to give it a grand reveal to open the film, but an in-universe reason would've been nice.

Nit 1: They should've left it vague on how long Khan had actually been awake. Seems like he accomplished an awful lot in a short period of time. Especially the Vengeance, considering it took at least three years to build the Enterprise.

Nit 2: Khan seems to like to crush skulls as his finishing move. He kept trying to crush Spock's when it seems he should've simply ripped his heart out.

Nit 3: That is one ugly impulse deck they put on the Enterprise at the end of the film.

Observation 1: While I know the intent was for Cumberbatch to be Khan, I think they left themselves some wiggle room. If they have a Khan story they could bring in a new actor to play him and pass off Harrison as another augment who took the title.

Observation 2: The flipped TWOK death scene and Khan's magic blood didn't play nearly as badly as I anticipated. I actually thought they worked quite well.

 

[Franklin]

I wonder what they all did during the year the Enterprise was being rebuilt? (I know it won't say in the movie, but I do wonder.)

 

[Titus Andronicus]

I wonder what they all did during the year the Enterprise was being rebuilt? (I know it won't say in the movie, but I do wonder.)

Good question. Maybe we'll find out in the comics or in a novel someday.

 

[BillJ]

I wonder what they all did during the year the Enterprise was being rebuilt? (I know it won't say in the movie, but I do wonder.)

Good question. Maybe we'll find out in the comics or in a novel someday.

Refresher courses on the Prime Directive and writing reports...

 

[Leonardo T. Dragon]

Saw it last night as part of a double feature with Wrath of Khan.

Great film overall! The cast dynamic was excellent and Cumberbatch managed to steal the show in several places which is high praise when you consider how strong this new cast is.

The plot moved at a lightning pace but yet there was still time for some character development. There was also some nice continuity in terms of several references to the first film of this new timeline. This film relies more on knowledge of the Trek franchise than its predecessor but not to the point where it will alienate more casual audiences. I will say this-- it was very interesting seeing this film right after WoK. VERY interesting.

My biggest complaint is that I'll not get a TV series with this set of actors. The wait for the next film is going to be very very long.

Overall, I gave it an "A" and enjoyed it far more than Iron Man 3 which was a huge disappointment in my eyes.

 

[Amaris]

I wonder what they all did during the year the Enterprise was being rebuilt? (I know it won't say in the movie, but I do wonder.)

Good question. Maybe we'll find out in the comics or in a novel someday.

Refresher courses on the Prime Directive and writing reports...

I did love the dressing down Pike gave Kirk in the first part of the movie. It was very well done.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Curiosity: they never did explain why the Enterprise needed to hide in the ocean on Niburu. It would've been nice to have a reason for hiding a starship there. I know the real world reason was to give it a grand reveal to open the film, but an in-universe reason would've been nice.

Hey, here's one for you: how did they launch the shuttle underwater? Unless I'm mistaken we've yet to see an old-fashioned Star Trek force field of the kind that lets ships pass but keeps air inside a shuttle bay. So they just opened the clamshell doors and...what? Where are the water pumps?

 

[Titus Andronicus]

I wonder what they all did during the year the Enterprise was being rebuilt? (I know it won't say in the movie, but I do wonder.)

Good question. Maybe we'll find out in the comics or in a novel someday.

Refresher courses on the Prime Directive and writing reports...

Heh sounds about right! Although I wouldn't be surprised if some of the officers were temporarily re-assigned, just to make sure they're helping out and....staying out of trouble.

 

[Irishman]

I'd hope that his was the more serious post (TUC was a disappointment, IMO) and that the "is EVERYONE ON DRUGS?!" post was the merely sarcastic one, given with tongue firmly in cheek.

OK, now I think that I'M the one trapped in an alternate universe! What kind of topsy turvy world has STID>ST:TUC????

I'm just going to leave now.

EDIT: People are creaming their pants over this movie for the same reasons that people heaved dung at Nemesis... this whole thing really has me baffled. I'm questioning my own sanity right now... am I even awake?

Star Trek: Nemesis was a shit film.
Star Trek Into Darkness was not a shit film.

Any questions?

 

[Phily B]

Curiosity: they never did explain why the Enterprise needed to hide in the ocean on Niburu. It would've been nice to have a reason for hiding a starship there. I know the real world reason was to give it a grand reveal to open the film, but an in-universe reason would've been nice.

Eh, it was basically there to set up a cool scene which I have no problem with. Though if it was a shitty scene then I'd probably have actually cared about this point if the scene was shit. I think that's a general rule for Trek movies from me.

Nit 3: That is one ugly impulse deck they put on the Enterprise at the end of the film.

Didn't see this, will have to look out for it next time.

Observation 1: While I know the intent was for Cumberbatch to be Khan, I think they left themselves some wiggle room. If they have a Khan story they could bring in a new actor to play him and pass off Harrison as another augment who took the title.

I can't see them doing this, it would be needlessly complicated and they've shied away from complicating and confusing the audience so far.

Observation 2: The flipped TWOK death scene and Khan's magic blood didn't play nearly as badly as I anticipated. I actually thought they worked quite well.

I think that goes for both movies really, reading the spoilers for this one I feared it was going to turn out to be complete pap but it works. Same with 09, on paper it just seems like it could be a complete mess. I guess thats what happens when you have a talented director and good budget...

Star Trek: Nemesis was a shit film.
Star Trek Into Darkness was not a shit film.

I think it shows the failings of Nemesis considering the energy that 09 and ID had, while having a lot of similar elements. I mean compare the scene with Data floating calmly to the other ship compared to the intense and well done scene in this movie. Compare Hardy to Cumberbatch, though I feel you can put a lot of blame onto the studios for Nemesis for just assuming Trek will get you some nice profit and just handing it to some no mark with no experience.

 

[BillJ]

Observation 1: While I know the intent was for Cumberbatch to be Khan, I think they left themselves some wiggle room. If they have a Khan story they could bring in a new actor to play him and pass off Harrison as another augment who took the title.

I can't see them doing this, it would be needlessly complicated and they've shied away from complicating and confusing the audience so far.

I agree. But if they decide to do another Khan movie and run into issues with either scheduling or money or Cumberbatch simply not wanting to do another one, I think they've given themselves an out.

 

[R. Star]

Just noting I have -not- read all 100 pages of this thread, so I may touch upon things already mentioned. And just in case anyone's here who hasn't seen it(though you're doing it to yourself) this post contains SPOILERS. So, all that said... here's my thoughts:

I loved the opening bit. Sure, there have been any number of similar episodes to the concept of saving a primitive race, but this was just a few minute teaser and not a whole episode and it explores the characters reactions to the Prime Direction dilemma nicely.

Which is to say... screw it. As Tom Paris sussinctly put it... "They're all going to die, anything's got to be better than that." So it comes as no surprise that the young and brash NuKirk goes along with interfering to keep the planet from going boom. Heck, even Spock logics himself into it, which I liked. Though it was rather artificial drama, of wondering "oh no Spock's gonna die!" Though even Scotty points out the bloody obvious... why the hell do you have the ship on the bottom of the ocean?! The answer being because the ship rising out of it makes for a cool shot.

So... we see something new. Consequences for breaking the Prime Directive. Even Spock narcs Kirk out. Though seriously... getting demoted back to the Academy? Is there not ANYTHING between Cadet and Captain? Though Pike really starts to worm his way into the absent father figure for Kirk, by saving his career and making him First Officer. Though that doesn't last since Harrison kills him too. Really to make the last movie less stupid they should've made Kirk Pike's first officer then, then have him inherit the captain's role in this movie. Still at least they try to retcon that a bit.

So Kirk's give his command back by yet another corrupt Starfleet Admiral... the horse is dead guys! Nice action sequences on the Klingon planet and I like that Scotty got a bigger role in this one than last time. Though Kirk's comment telling Chekov to put on the red shirt and the nameless extras doomed to death to take them all was funny. Spock and Uhura's argument was good stuff too.

So Harrison shows how badass he is then just surrenders, but quickly starts to manipulate Kirk simply by telling the truth. I do have to say though the Khan reveal was a surprise to me. I guess Abrams did a good job with keeping everyone guessing on this one. Never quite got why the other Eugenics are in the torpedoes but whatever. Even after the reveal you're kept guessing if he's really gonna betray the good guys or is something of an anti-hero.

By the way... just have to say it... I hate the concept of the USS Vengeance. Why don't we just call it the USS Evil Overlord with pictures of dead kittens painted on the hull? Still Harrison's a jerk, though his daughter's cute even if she's prone to just randomly take her clothes off for no reason. Kinda surprised there was nothing more between her and Kirk, though I guess she's kinda joined the main cast now. Gotta have a love interest for Kirk to get into trouble with next movie, right?

Spock Prime's appearance was a nice easter egg without distracting from the main story. So yeah you're pretty much rooting for Khan to just kill Marcus. Though I liked how Kirk made the first move against Khan. I wish they'd made it more ambiguous if Khan was going to betray them or not before that.

Now the ending.... Kirk sacrificing himself to save the ship. That was good stuff and the reversal of every thing was just plain eerie and powerful. I made the comment that I just can't see Pine pulling off a Khan scream once the rumor he was the villain started floating around.... well dang if Qunito can. That one gave me chills.

Beyond that... well the ending's cliche as all hell and really just wraps up WAY too quick. First, I was disappointed as all heck that "oh superhuman techobabble dna cures radiation!" that just felt like a cop out to me and really cheapened the sacrifice. Killing Kirk off, well that would've made a statement and taken a risk. Not like you can't recon that next movie with alternate timelines and realities being what they are in Trek. The Spock/Khan fight made sense. Vulcan strength vs super human. Though if they can beam down people one at a time, I dunno why they just weren't sending every redshirt they could one at a time. Still Uhura shooting Khan is a nice touch.

Overall... as I said, the ending really disappointed me. An epic sacrifice just cheapened by the reset button. Still, there was more good than bad in this one, so despite not liking the 2009 movie much, I'll give this one a B+. I really need to watch it again, because I'm sure I didn't catch all the easter eggs.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I agree. But if they decide to do another Khan movie and run into issues with either scheduling or money or Cumberbatch simply not wanting to do another one, I think they've given themselves an out.

Or, they could resort to just shooting all of his scenes separately at a time of his convenience and then having him and Pine just talk to one another on the Enterprise viewer.

Maybe he could capture Chekov or something.

 

[F. King Daniel]

But hey, I was very impressed by Chris Pine. He upped his game, and I really empathized with Kirk thoughout the movie.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Yeah, but I think the guy who did this image - not me, BTW, I should have made that clear - did pick one of Pine's weaker scenes here.