Star Trek Generations at 20 (November 18, 1994)

[Franklin]

As far as the on-screen reaction to its destruction went, I don't think anyone on that crew, even Riker, felt for the ship what the TOS crew felt for their Enterprise. Considering the Stargazer was the ship Picard served on for over two decades (and he expressed great affection for it), and the E-D wasn't his first command, I could see why he may not have been that emotionally attached to E-D after only seven years on it.

Yeah, I can totally buy that.

But you would've thought there might've been some repercussions to Picard. This is the second ship under his command that he's lost. Wouldn't he have faced a court martial or something? Would they have kept the crew together? I dunno. Those are some of the questions I had.

His starship insurance premium would certainly go up.

In FC Picard faced repercussions from his contact with the Borg. But I see your point about losing two starships and going on with an "oh, well" attitude. That does take some explaining, and at least a hearing to investigate any faults in command would be in order. Then again, Riker was technically in command of E-D (in the chair at least) when it was lost. And for all we know, a hearing was held, and Picard (and Riker) were exonerated for what happened.

 

[cooleddie74]

Based on Geordi's dialogue in First Contact and the commissioning or launch stardate for the Enterprise-E on the ship's dedication plaque there seems to be about a full year between the destruction of the Enterprise-D at Veridian III and Picard assuming command of the newest ship. That might have allowed plenty of time for Starfleet Command to hold hearings on the events in the Veridian system and if Captain Picard was at fault for losing his ship to a Klingon attack.

Worf did sort of wander about aimlessly after the 1701-D was destroyed, even heading off to the Klingon monastery on Boreth to meditate and reflect on things while waiting for whatever his next Starfleet posting was going to be. During that time we can imagine the rest of the Enterprise senior officers did their own things while waiting to see if they'd get a brand new starship together. Time for Picard to face a hearing over the loss of the Enterprise-D, be cleared of any negligence and wrongdoing and be granted command of the next Enterprise that was either already under construction or soon to be built and launched.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I do think Alonzo's look, with that new lighting, for Generations was definitely cool and unique, particularly the ready room, the only problem with it is that it sticks out as too "different" form all the other Trek films. I watch First Contact any time I get bored and I find that light to straightforward but still =cinematic and interesting. I actulally love that look. To light it any differently would have taken the impact away from the Borg.

Although Insurrection and Nemesis had similar lighting and cinematography as First Contact, the movies felt more cartoonish.. especially with the plain CG Enterprise in Insurrection.

But, yeah, I'd hesitate before dissing how First Contact looks.. I think the blue ray of that pops out more than Into Darkness.

 

[AgentCoop]

I really enjoy Shatner's performance in Generations, especially at the beginning. Seems like he's having fun with it and it shows.

 

[Commishsleer]

I'm glad Kelley opted out. He looked frail enough in TUC, I can't imagine it would have been a pretty sight to see him even older.

I have heard that Kelley's uninsurability was the actual reason he wasn't in Generations. Actors are insured in case of accidents or death, and Kelley's health and fragility would have made him incredibly expensive to the production for even a cameo.

Who knows the 'real' reason? That may have been one reason. I heard that Nimoy and Kelley thought GEN was a load of rubbish (their parts and Shatners). Doohan (not unkindly) said Kelley didn't need the money while Doohan with his largish family did.
Nimoy says now he hated the script (which I believe) but it could also be part of a pay negotiation.

 

[Lance]

As far as the on-screen reaction to its destruction went, I don't think anyone on that crew, even Riker, felt for the ship what the TOS crew felt for their Enterprise. Considering the Stargazer was the ship Picard served on for over two decades (and he expressed great affection for it), and the E-D wasn't his first command, I could see why he may not have been that emotionally attached to E-D after only seven years on it.

Yeah, I can totally buy that.

But you would've thought there might've been some repercussions to Picard. This is the second ship under his command that he's lost. Wouldn't he have faced a court martial or something? Would they have kept the crew together? I dunno. Those are some of the questions I had.

His starship insurance premium would certainly go up.

In FC Picard faced repercussions from his contact with the Borg. But I see your point about losing two starships and going on with an "oh, well" attitude. That does take some explaining, and at least a hearing to investigate any faults in command would be in order. Then again, Riker was technically in command of E-D (in the chair at least) when it was lost. And for all we know, a hearing was held, and Picard (and Riker) were exonerated for what happened.

Yeah, there was a full year between Veridian III and the supposed launch of 1701-E, so chances are good that some kind of enquiry was held and the crew exonerated by reason of it simply being a chain of unfortunate circumstances (although we might further theorize that it took Riker about another seven years to finally get offered another command, so maybe he got a note put on his file, or something).

Another factor is Geordi's VISOR: when we next see the crew, Geordi has replaced his VISOR with implants (something he'd flagged up as being possible all the way back in Season One of TNG, but had failed to actually do in nearly eight years of adventures seen on screen). Chances are good that in the post-Veridian III enquiry, the impact that Geordi's VISOR made in creating the security breach in the first place, that ultimately led to the destruction of the ship, came to cold hard light, and that Geordi voluntarily had the implants done and the VISOR thrown away after all these years for partly this reason.

 

[Franklin]

Here's a quote from Nimoy taken from an interview with StarTrek.com in May, 2013. He explains why he took the STID role, but turned down GEN. Seems to fit with the most conventional explanation that he turned down GEN because he wasn't really needed.

This cameo in Star Trek Into Darkness was about the Spock character. The cameo in Generations was not about the Spock character. It was just somebody named Spock saying some lines that had nothing to do with Spock. It wasn’t about the character at all. The character was just being used to say some lines that needed to be said about the exposition of the story. I suggested to them that they could take those lines and give them to other members of the cast and no one would know the difference. And that’s exactly what they did. So that indicates to you how clear it was that it wasn’t about Spock. It was about something else. So I just let it go. There was no need for me to be there. This story lent itself to the idea that Spock would contact me to ask for information.

Link to full interview:

http://www.startrek.com/article/exclusive-interview-leonard-nimoy-talks-star-trek-into-darkness

From what I've ever read about Kelley, he turned GEN down because he thought he already gave the character an appropriate send-off in TUC. IMDb does mention Kelley's frailty and that he couldn't get insurance, but IMDb isn't the most reliable source.

 

[Franklin]

Yeah, I can totally buy that.

But you would've thought there might've been some repercussions to Picard. This is the second ship under his command that he's lost. Wouldn't he have faced a court martial or something? Would they have kept the crew together? I dunno. Those are some of the questions I had.

His starship insurance premium would certainly go up.

In FC Picard faced repercussions from his contact with the Borg. But I see your point about losing two starships and going on with an "oh, well" attitude. That does take some explaining, and at least a hearing to investigate any faults in command would be in order. Then again, Riker was technically in command of E-D (in the chair at least) when it was lost. And for all we know, a hearing was held, and Picard (and Riker) were exonerated for what happened.

Yeah, there was a full year between Veridian III and the supposed launch of 1701-E, so chances are good that some kind of enquiry was held and the crew exonerated by reason of it simply being a chain of unfortunate circumstances (although we might further theorize that it took Riker about another seven years to finally get offered another command, so maybe he got a note put on his file, or something).

Another factor is Geordi's VISOR: when we next see the crew, Geordi has replaced his VISOR with implants (something he'd flagged up as being possible all the way back in Season One of TNG, but had failed to actually do in nearly eight years of adventures seen on screen). Chances are good that in the post-Veridian III enquiry, the impact that Geordi's VISOR made in creating the security breach in the first place, that ultimately led to the destruction of the ship, came to cold hard light, and that Geordi voluntarily had the implants done and the VISOR thrown away after all these years for partly this reason.

Pardon the double post.

That's interesting about Geordi's VISOR. I also wonder how the transporter didn't detect that it was different than the last time Geordi transported with it and at least give a warning that it had changed. You'd think it could do that as a matter of routine.

Geordi may have been less than conscientious as well to not wonder why Soran took such an interest in the VISOR and at least scan it for any changes when he got back to the Enterprise just in case it was tampered with when it was out of his possession.

 

[Smellmet]

I do think Alonzo's look, with that new lighting, for Generations was definitely cool and unique, particularly the ready room, the only problem with it is that it sticks out as too "different" form all the other Trek films. I watch First Contact any time I get bored and I find that light to straightforward but still =cinematic and interesting. I actulally love that look. To light it any differently would have taken the impact away from the Borg.

Although Insurrection and Nemesis had similar lighting and cinematography as First Contact, the movies felt more cartoonish.. especially with the plain CG Enterprise in Insurrection.

But, yeah, I'd hesitate before dissing how First Contact looks.. I think the blue ray of that pops out more than Into Darkness.

I think the way Generations was lit and filmed gave it a really 'special' look, especially the bridge and the scenes that were bathed in the light from the star, it gave the movie quite an epic look and feel and for me has helped the film age better than First Contact and Insurrection at least visually to me.

I've not got any of the original 10 movies on Blu-Ray, I've been making do with my 1-10 DVD box set so can't really comment on that, but I've always preferred the look of Generations over the subsequent 2 movies. I think my dislike of the Enterprise-E bridge over the D plays a part too, it just looks so stark and drab compared to the luxurious D.

 

[AgentCoop]

I do have the films on Blu-Ray, and while First Contact remains my favorite Trek movie, Generations is by far the better-looking film. The lighting, colors and overall richness of the movie's look give it a quality that I think is unique among all of the Trek movies.

 

[cooleddie74]

First Contact has the superior storyline and the greater emotional weight to it, but it's just not as pretty to watch on any size screen as Generations was and still is. The battle with the Borg cube at the beginning of the film and the zero-gravity fight on the hull of the Enterprise-E are visually gripping, but much of the film is darker, less colorful and grounded in events on Post-Atomic Earth, which doesn't lend itself to lot of whiz-bang flash and bright colors dancing around the screen and brilliant cinematography.

The better film, but less interesting to look at.

 

[Smellmet]

Thematically, it was interesting and right up TNG's alley. As I've posted before, I saw it as 1960's communal left-wing college student values versus the values of that same group of people when they grew up into yuppies (which is why I thought it was neat that they turned out to be the same race). It was a "good Kirk, bad Kirk" thing: neither group was whole on its own. The Ba'ku needed the technology of the Federation to protect them, just as the college students needed their checks from Mom and Dad to sustain their lifestyles (the irony of that being lost on them). The So'na had sold out their ideals, just as many of the 1960s radicalized or very liberal students did when they got jobs, moved into gated communities, started paying homeowner's association fees, had children, and got IRAs.

The problem is, a story centered around conflicts of values like that just isn't going to be the whizz-bang big screen event and popcorn-munching treat moviegoers want to see. On the other hand, it would've been a top ten TNG episode, in my opinion.

It was, to put it diplomatically, a quiet movie that didn't know if it wanted to be taken seriously or not. It also lacked the charm of TVH, which was a 180 degree turn from what came before it. The only way TVH worked was that it was an open and complete farce -- in the good theater use of the term -- and everyone, even the characters, knew it.

Your last two paragraphs sum it up nicely. I've slagged Insurrection off as much as any, but it's not without merit - it has a feeling of the characters being close, almost like TOS movie in parts, some of the humor was still okay even though some of it sucked, and the location shooting was nice, I totally get what you mean about it not knowing if it wanted to be taken seriously.

Edit: Managed to somehow post this in the wrong thread like a chump...

 

[Smellmet]

First Contact has the superior storyline and the greater emotional weight to it, but it's just not as pretty to watch on any size screen as Generations was and still is. The battle with the Borg cube at the beginning of the film and the zero-gravity fight on the hull of the Enterprise-E are visually gripping, but much of the film is darker, less colorful and grounded in events on Post-Atomic Earth, which doesn't lend itself to lot of whiz-bang flash and bright colors dancing around the screen and brilliant cinematography.

The better film, but less interesting to look at.

Precisely. The sets on Generations looked so much more timeless and almost classy - the Enterprise D bridge looked so much more of a nice, rich environment, the E, to me, even though I preferred the exterior design over the D had horrible, plasticy looking sets with none of the grace of the D's interior design, and I think it hampers the movies set on that ship. In the words of bones - 'they do not, it looks like a damn computer centre'

 

[DWF]

The Enterprise E's bridge looked more like a widescreen movie styled set, which is probably why the stations on the side of D's bridge were added for Generations.

 

[urbandefault]

The Enterprise E's bridge looked more like a widescreen movie styled set, which is probably why the stations on the side of D's bridge were added for Generations.

And why the 3 center seats were on a raised platform.

 

[cooleddie74]

Worf also got his very own chair behind the bridge tactical station, though you could barely see it at all during the movie.

 

[Dukhat]

This cameo in Star Trek Into Darkness was about the Spock character. The cameo in Generations was not about the Spock character. It was just somebody named Spock saying some lines that had nothing to do with Spock. It wasn’t about the character at all. The character was just being used to say some lines that needed to be said about the exposition of the story. I suggested to them that they could take those lines and give them to other members of the cast and no one would know the difference. And that’s exactly what they did. So that indicates to you how clear it was that it wasn’t about Spock. It was about something else. So I just let it go. There was no need for me to be there. This story lent itself to the idea that Spock would contact me to ask for information.

I'm not quite sure I agree with Nimoy here. Yes, I absolutely agree that his necessity in Generations would have been wasted with only this one scene. But it was painfully obvious that Spock's lines were given to Scotty and McCoy's lines were given to Chekov.

 

[Amaris]

I first saw it on pay-per-view in 1995. I watched it on an old 19" color TV, so I didn't really get the awesome cinematic experience, but I was too involved in the film to care. I remember being upset when the ship crashed, and when Kirk died. Today, the film sits in the middle of the pack when it comes to listing my favorite Trek films. The first half was pretty good, but it was the second half going into the final showdown that just fell apart for me. The music was great, though, and seeing the crew put through their paces in a feature film was worth it all.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

But it was painfully obvious that Spock's lines were given to Scotty and McCoy's lines were given to Chekov.

That's for sure. The "I have a theory"/"I thought you might" dialogue just feels like a Spock/Kirk exchange and "You and you, you've just become nurses" is a total McCoy line. So much so that my imagination of Nimoy and Kelley saying those lines is more vivid to me than the actors who actually said those lines in the movie.

 

[Khan 2.0]

replacing Spock and Bones with Scott and Chekov was such a disappointment. I realise Nimoy (& Kelly?) didn't care for the script and wanted VI to be the send off but it would've been amazing seeing the big 3 one last time and Spock/Bones witness the death of Kirk (tieing into Vs campfire scene!) maybe an elder Spock comm cameo later on conversing with Picard about Soran

(I think the original idea was for the whole 7 to be in the opening and when the crisis happens they gradually assume their old positions but it proved too much to give some meaningful scene for each one so it got pared down to the big 3.. )