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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x13 - "Coming Home"

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That is a major bit of silliness! Plot convenience in addition to all the other conveniences in this episode.

I was thinking that they were going to make 10C be some utterly alien species from another universe with different physical laws, which would be why they were behind that shield of theirs. They just came to our universe only to mine but were so alien that they couldn't understand the biological processes of our universe.

But, no, they went with a different, less alien concept which didn't really work. I mean, 10C are a cool alien concept, but you can't buy that they wouldn't be aware of other intelligent species in their own galaxy.
Why not? Beavers construct incredible dams, ants create amazing tunnel structures… and yet we kill just about every animal on this planet because we do not see them as higher, sentient beings…. Is it so hard to image that warp drive would the Ten-C’s equivalent of a beaver’s dam?
 
Why not? Beavers construct incredible dams, ants create amazing tunnel structures… and yet we kill just about every animal on this planet because we do not see them as higher, sentient beings…. Is it so hard to image that warp drive would the Ten-C equivalent of a beaver’s dam?
Well put and exactly what I was thinking as they communicated with 10-C.
 
I can. "Intelligent" life has a limited definition depending on perspective.
My, aren't you special! ;)

There are some clear non-natural and biological signals they could've detected, such as warp signatures, narrowband transmissions, and shoot even the chemical makeup of planetary atmospheres (which is within our technology).

For a species that had their home planet destroyed, they sure are a bit willy-nilly when it comes to destroying other planets! Basically not doing any scans whatsoever.
 
My, aren't you special! ;)
That's what my mom says. :rolleyes:
There are some clear non-natural and biological signals they could've detected, such as warp signatures, narrowband transmissions, and shoot even the chemical makeup of planetary atmospheres (which is within our technology).

For a species that had their home planet destroyed, they sure are a bit willy-nilly when it comes to destroying other planets! Basically not doing any scans whatsoever.
Again, the difference between life and life we can communicate with and have regard for. Humans suck at this too.
 
That's what my mom says. :rolleyes:

Again, the difference between life and life we can communicate with and have regard for. Humans suck at this too.
10C is presented as being a particularly empathic and emotional species. They needed nothing more than the words of those on Discovery to suspend their entire mining operation in which they thought their survival depended. That's how emotionally sensitive and empathic they are! (Also convenient for wrapping up the plot!)

However, given this high emotional sensitivity, they don't bother to check for life around the planets they're destroying?! Even after losing their own planet, which the show made clear was extremely painful for them?!

The show went out of its way to play up their empathy and how it prompted 10C to utterly change their plans/lifestyle. Yet, 10C didn't check for life on the planets it was destroying? That would be a logical precaution for an empathic species.

Nah, that just doesn't pass the smell test!
 
10C is presented as being a particularly empathic and emotional species. They needed nothing more than the words of those on Discovery to suspend their entire mining operation in which they thought their survival depended. That's how emotionally sensitive and empathic they are! (Also convenient for wrapping up the plot!)

However, given this high emotional sensitivity, they don't bother to check for live around the planets they're destroying?! Even after losing their own planet, which the show made clear was extremely painful for them?!

The show went out of its way to play up their empathy and how it prompted 10C to utterly change their plans/lifestyle. Yet, 10C didn't check for life on the planets it was destroying? That would be a logical precaution for an empathic species.

Nah, that just doesn't pass the smell test!
It's not logical.

Agree to disagree, etc.
 
It's not logical.

Agree to disagree, etc.
It's actually quite logical. An empathic species with massive pain over losing their own planet will, logically, seek to reduce pain in others and scan for life before destroying a planet.

You need to understand their motivations as presented. We saw them drastically change their course of action (shutting off the DMA and dropping the hyperfield) because of the same logic. That's exactly why they did all of that!

We can disagree, but I do have a bridge that you might interested in buying? :)
 
It's actually quite logical. An empathic species with massive pain over losing their own planet will, logically, seek to reduce pain in others and scan for life before destroying a planet.
Not necessarily.
You need to understand their motivations as presented.
I believe I do. But apparently I am wrong.

I'll bow to your superior intellect at this point. You win. :beer:
 
An empathic species with massive pain over losing their own planet will, logically, seek to reduce pain in others and scan for life before destroying a planet. :)

I like to think the human race is pretty empathic and emotional, yet we kill baby animals because they taste good, destroy entire eco systems to build football stadiums.... all because we only value a certain kind of life... the Ten-C were forced to reevaluate their assumptions, just like we would if pigs started communicating with us, pleading us not to kill them...
 
I like to think the human race is pretty empathic and emotional, yet we kill baby animals because they taste good, destroy entire eco systems to build football stadiums.... all because we only value a certain kind of life... the Ten-C were forced to reevaluate their assumptions, just like we would if pigs started communicating with us, pleading us not to kill them...
Yeah, if we were more empathetic like 10C, we'd be a much better species!
 
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It was quite cathartic, that's most of what I can say about it. With Earth gloriously rejoining the Federation at the end, the crew reuniting and going on their well-deserved vacations, I could even accept this as a series finale if it weren't already renewed. Also, we got Saru/T'Rina and even some glimpses of Keyla/Owo to let me keep hoping for something more, yay! And for the first time ever, the finale was unquestionably better than the season that preceded it.

Of course, most of my thoughts are concerned with the bundle of unbridled awesome that is my one true love Sylvia Tilly, and I was just so damn happy I got to see her again. I was constantly scared throughout that they would actually kill her and Vance off, especially when they had their last drink and heart-to-heart conversation, but I'm very glad I won't have to put a black bar on my profile pic or turn it grayscale or whatever. And of course, her B-plot was much meatier than what I was worried she'd ultimately get with a single reunion scene at the end... still, with her staying at the Academy, I still can't help but feel like this is will be goodbye for quite a while; while Kurtzman did say they'll start producing new shows after one of the current ones is finished, I'm not entirely convinced Picard's slot would be filled by the oft-mentioned Academy series or that it would actually take place in the 32nd century, especially now that Jean-Luc became its chancellor in 2401, opening up the possibility of Sir Patrick returning in the occasional guest appearance in a 25th century Academy show whenever he feels like it. Oh well, I guess the only thing I can do now is to start regularly checking Mary Wiseman's schedule for clues.

And at least I heard her say "I love you" to Michael. I've long since accepted this would be the most my obsessed mind would get out of this ship, and as much as I would've loved to see them together, Book has been a perfect match for our captain so there's that. I was sure they would kill him off at the end, so it was a nice surprise that the 10-C rescued him even without fully understanding the purpose of his transporter signature. But the fact that he took Grudge with him at the end makes me incensed. Outraged! Appalled! Joke aside, of course he would take his Queen with him, but we've not exactly been blessed with an abundance of quality cat content this season... me and my best friend would keep quoting Werner Herzog's "I would like to see the baby" every episode and Grudge would never come, what a shame. As a side note, I'm also glad they didn't kill off Ndoye, because it would've been too obvious. I've also been envisioning a convenient sacrifice for Rillak, so her staying alive is also a great bonus.

I'm happy Tarka didn't turn out to be unrepentantly evil, and Book managed to reach him emotionally at the end. Self-sacrifice was obviously the only way out for him though, and I think they managed to make it poignant. As much harm as he has done, I've come to sympathize with his pain, grief and self-blame, even as it led him to obsession and delusion in his unwillingness to accept that his friend or maybe even lover was truly gone and that "home" was ultimately little more than an afterlife that might not even actually exist in the physical sense. Unlike Soran who was presented as writing off billions of people as the cost of him getting to the Nexus, Tarka genuinely came off as someone who ultimately didn't want to hurt people, even if it meant having to come up with increasingly insane justifications to absolve himself of the responsibility. It made me wonder that maybe Soran could've been a bit more sympathetic figure if he'd attempted to rejoin some of his compatriots whom the Enterprise couldn't rescue from the Nexus. But that's a discussion for a different time.

Also, how did I miss Stacey Abrams as the President of Earth? I guess I'll have to give back my MA in political science.
 
I like to think the human race is pretty empathic and emotional, yet we kill baby animals because they taste good, destroy entire eco systems to build football stadiums.... all because we only value a certain kind of life... the Ten-C were forced to reevaluate their assumptions, just like we would if pigs started communicating with us, pleading us not to kill them...

If trees could scream, would we cut them down? Maybe, if they screamed all the time for no good reason.

This was the best of the finales, I thought. But the highlight of the whole season was Saru’s budding relationship with T’Rina. It might be the first time in all of Trek when I could really see how a full Vulcan would get involved with a non-Vulcan.
 
Nah, it's just observing their characteristics, motivations, and behavior and using that information consistently.

The writers used it to resolve the conflict with 10C but didn't consider it when they were setting up the conflict.
My observation is that just because they are empathic doesn't mean they can't consider all forms of life as equal.

But, that's just my view.
Is everyone really clean shaven in the AU ?
Hopefully.
 
Not perfect, but none of the flaws got in the way for me giving this one a 10. That felt good, and Discovery is all about the feelings. I'm glad that the tension was resolved in a way that didn't leave a bitterness lingering, even if it's perhaps not realistic.

There's certainly a lot of conveniences here, but I'm a lot more forgiving of those in service of telling a story where things turn out okay then one where they don't. I'll take a convenient happy ending over a convenient depressing one. People did have to make hard choices, and I feel they even managed to convince me of Book's death, so his later recovery was an unexpected relief. He didn't just come back to save Michael from her grief, but because he had something important to add to the conversation. In the end, the choices matter more than the consequences, and I'm mostly satisfied in retrospect with what was there. There are consequences other than death or loss.

I think why this works for me is that the consequences are going to happen in-universe, instead of one or more writer-dictated deaths to serve the perceived narrative. Probably because the record so far in that regard isn't particularly strong; it's a permanent ending to an arc that may or may not have sold me on that being the inevitable conclusion.

For Book, Community Service is a very Federation solution to his transgression. People still died because of what he did, and he's not likely to forget that. Ndoye, too, sacrificed herself to make it right. I would expect her to lose her position, but I find it very interesting that the show explicitly took a stance that intent matters alongside the consequences.

Not every situation has to be a Kobayshi Maru, even if it looks like one.

One more thing: Tarka is Lorca done right. I never liked Tarka, but I do feel for him. He was tragic, and they never had to undermine that part of his character to make him into a threat.

He was wrong, a lot, but he was wholly unable to ever admit it. He could have gotten what he wanted if only he had found that inside himself, but it was not within him to do until it was too late for him to accomplish more than save one life. I wish he'd been able to find his friend, but in the end he had only himself to blame for everything that kept him from that goal. Maybe a part of him thought it was futile and was acting self-destructively? We'll probably never know.

At least not until he comes back from another universe, bringing a rescued-from-exile Lorca along for the series finale. ;)
 
As expected, another massive anticlimax in which Burnham is once again Proven To Be Right In All Things™.
 
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