Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x12 - "Species 10-C"

[eschaton]

Wow...I was not expecting to enjoy this episode as much as I did. I liked it better than Picard this week...and I really liked that as well!

This is pretty clearly the most science fiction episode of Discovery we've yet seen, and the most in-depth meditation regarding traversing the communication barriers of first contact since Darmok - and a much smarter episode than that as well. As others have pointed out, it had some real parallels to Arrival, though I think it feels that way in part because that movie was a faithful adaptation of an excellent written SF novella. This felt like part of a prestige SF book which was adapted for screen. The technobabble regarding the language was a bit dodgy at times, but I'm willing to overlook that, because they managed to pull off the difficult feat of making 10-C very alien/inscrutable while still moving the story forward at a fast enough pace that they got to real communication by the story's end.

As for the remainder of the episode, it was fine. I appreciated the fact that there was finally (in the penultimate episode) forward movement regarding whatever Tarka's real plan is, that Book finally wised up to the fact that he was being used for the last 5 or so episodes, and that Reno was utilized well within the story. She has a...different tone...than most of the remainder of the crew at this point, which is refreshing. Therapy-talk was kept to a minimum - or at least, was less noticeable here than elsewhere. If only they kept out a few completely unneeded scenes (like Saru being emo about a girl maybe not liking him) this could have been an all-time classic episode.

Edit: One big flaw though - why wait until this late in the season to do this episode? It could have just as easily been episode 4-6, and it would have worked just as well. It's a great story, but it's not quite worth the build-up (or more, stringing along) that we've gotten up until now.

 

[Sakonna]

I am super curious about the ultimate fate of Book next week. In many ways, it feels like they've gone past the point of no return with him, and this will have to be an exit, either sacrificing himself to stop Tarka, or being sent off to prison if he makes it out alive.

I really hope we avoid Michael having to kill him. She has enough trauma already.

It's interesting -- I love the Book character, but I definitely want him gone from the show after this. His actions are extreme enough that this really feels like it's an exit arc. If he's not leaving, that might knock my opinion of this season down a few notches.

Or who knows, I'm open to them turning me around. There was a "Picard" character that I never wanted to see again after season one who has already been completely rehabbed in the premiere of season two.

 

[eschaton]

I am super curious about the ultimate fate of Book next week. In many ways, it feels like they've gone past the point of no return with him, and this will have to be an exit, either sacrificing himself to stop Tarka, or being sent off to prison if he makes it out alive.

I really hope we avoid Michael having to kill him. She has enough trauma already.

It's interesting -- I love the Book character, but I definitely want him gone from the show after this. His actions are extreme enough that this really feels like it's an exit arc. If he's not leaving, that might knock my opinion of this season down a few notches.

Or who knows, I'm open them turning me around. There was a "Picard" character that I never wanted to see again after season one who has already been completely rehabbed in the premiere of season two.

I was actually wondering if Stamets is going to die. His remark to Culber about "taking a vacation after all this" seemed ominous - and I can't see them killing Culber again. Plus it's seemed for awhile like they're underserving Anthony Rapp on the show, and I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to exit.

 

[Sakonna]

I was actually wondering if Stamets is going to die. His remark to Culber about "taking a vacation after all this" seemed ominous - and I can't see them killing Culber again. Plus it's seemed for awhile like they're underserving Anthony Rapp on the show, and I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to exit.

I'm praying you're wrong on that one! They have already obliviously stepped on two "kill your gays/trans" landmines on this show. I have to hope they have finally learned.

I also think that vacation remark fits in well with Disco's self-care & mental-health focus.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

I agree it sounded ominous, but my money is still on Rillek dying. Although, T'Rina would make for that "star-crossed lovers tragically torn apart" thing that writers love. Or maybe nobody dies, lol.

Nope, still Rillek. She has now ominously alluded to something happening at least twice, once with Vance and this time around with Communications Guy. Dum-dum-DUMMM!

 

[Deks]

I also wasn't expecting this episode to be this well done.

Enjoyed it more than I thought I would have.

Nice mention that 10-C achieved Type II status (so at least, the writers aren't completely clueless in that department), but I STILL maintain that this is what UFP was already supposed to achieve in late 24th century and AT LEAST be seen constructing Dyson Swarms (not rings) across the stars in the whole Milky Way by the 32nd (and doing so in nearest galaxies and some in Andromeda - so I'm STILL deeply disturbed/irked by the premise of how unadvanced the UFP is in the 32nd century, despite the fact it had the knowledge and know how to be on that level and more centuries earlier - you can actually play a lot more with those premises/advancements than you can think).

Still, the analogy of UFP being like a monkey with a stone/knife compared to 10-C was wrong. At the very least, UFP should be Type I on Kardashev scale given what we saw of its capabilities.
If it was Type 0 it wouldn't in fact be interstellar organisation.
And the jump from Type I to II isn't that huge... the main difference is in energy consumption... language on the other hand, not necessarily - and the Milky Way has tens of thousands of species... the UFP database would be far more massive by the 32nd century... so, being able to find 'something' useful in it would be more realistic I guess.

Like others mentioned... the means of communication and the look of 10-c actually emulated 'Contact' and 'Arrival' movies (and done so quite well) - it was probably why this episode was quite good.
Interpersonal discussions between crewmembers was better handled here as well along with the pacing... plus the plot FINALLY advanced.

Tarka I just find annoying at this point. I kept thinking to myself... what if Trek had proper first contact where no one is trying to blow stuff up in the background at crucial moments like these?

And with communications with 10-C in their infancy... conveying 'it was someone else' could easily prove very difficult at this stage. I wonder how will 10-C see Tarka's escape and the actions he started (plus N'Doye had a major role to play with her sabotage - too trigger happy it seems).

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I want to LOVE this episode (Im not there), but at its heart, its one of the most "Trek" stories we have seen in a very long, long time.

I feel like that about this and last week's episode. "More Star Trek than Star Trek" and strange new worlds indeed

Too many are used to the quick resolution, they can't enjoy some well told stories like this.

I was also happy with more smart-ass Reno this week, "hey, Book the fifth!"

 

[eschaton]

So, I realized that with a bit of tweaking, you could have told the entire season across four episodes. Basically rework Kobayashi Maru, ...But To Connect, and this episode, and have whatever they plan for the finale.

That means there's been roughly 9 episodes worth of filler this season.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Nice mention that 10-C achieved Type II status (so at least, the writers aren't completely clueless in that department), but I STILL maintain that this is what UFP was already supposed to achieve in late 24th century and AT LEAST be seen constructing Dyson Swarms (not rings) across the stars in the whole Milky Way by the 32nd (and doing so in nearest galaxies and some in Andromeda - so I'm STILL deeply disturbed/irked by the premise of how unadvanced the UFP is in the 32nd century, despite the fact it had the knowledge and know how to be on that level and more centuries earlier - you can actually play a lot more with those premises/advancements than you can think).

Still, the analogy of UFP being like a monkey with a stone/knife compared to 10-C was wrong. At the very least, UFP should be Type I on Kardashev scale given what we saw of its capabilities.
If it was Type 0 it wouldn't in fact be interstellar organisation.

Present Day Earth is Type 0 (or 0.7) since we still use non-renewable energy sources like fossil fuels.

The Federation was definitely Type I in the 24th century since we know they had the ability to harness energy on a planetary scale. I would argue that the Federation in the 24th century was likely a very advanced Type I, or early Type II, since it was a vast interstellar civilization. If it wasn't for the Burn, we might expect the Federation to have colonized nearly the entire galaxy by the 32nd century and be almost Type III. I would argue that 10-C is a very advanced Type II since they can harness the energy of a star with dyson rings and surround a star system with a hyperfield. 10-C might be even be early Type III since they can send a DMA across intergalactic distances so effortlessly.

 

[LtChange]

So, I realized that with a bit of tweaking, you could have told the entire season across four episodes. Basically rework Kobayashi Maru, ...But To Connect, and this episode, and have whatever they plan for the finale.

That means there's been roughly 9 episodes worth of filler this season.

First of all I love this episode, the strangeness of the Ten-C and the great way they are working on the communication. Also Tarka is a clear idiot.

As for your comments, 9 is pushing it ... But I agree, that they could have done this in about 6-7 episodes and also left another arc for the rest of the 6 episodes. Just imagine, a first arc about the rebuilding of Federation and distribution of dilithium (the Qovat Milat episode could have been part of that arc and also the Akaali episode with some re-work) with the mid-season cliffhanger being the first appearance of the DMA, and the second part of the season would have been the Ten-C arc. There was no need to drag this as a Ten-C arc for a whole season ... Literary the same stories mostly could have worked in a little bit different context.

 

[Sakonna]

So, I realized that with a bit of tweaking, you could have told the entire season across four episodes. Basically rework Kobayashi Maru, ...But To Connect, and this episode, and have whatever they plan for the finale.

That means there's been roughly 9 episodes worth of filler this season.

@eschaton, I'm so surprised to disagree with you! You are usually my Disco twin, pretty much every time I have ever seen a post of yours on Disco, I think to myself "I agree 100%!".

But for me, I have felt very little filler this season (I may revise that opinion after seeing the finale). The DMA story has been exactly what I've been hoping Disco would get to -- a big umbrella story with many specific challenges along the way that must be dispensed with episodically. I've always thought that's the strength on this show, the "New Eden"-type stopovers.

I also think Discovery can't pace up too much, I don't think condensing this would help. Disco generally gets worse as the pacing accelerates -- it just becomes everyone screaming at each other about saving all sentient life in the galaxy. This show really needs season arcs with enough restriction built into them to create pauses for everyone to feel, go to therapy, visit mom, etc -- let out all the emotions that are this shows bread & butter.

I would redistribute the story a little -- I'd drop some beats after Tarka/Book first split off, I have felt filler with those two.

But I'd replace it by extending the buildup. I thought we needed another episode or two like "The Examples" -- a defined mission where the stakes are saving people in the path of the DMA. ("The Examples" was bad, but due to poor execution choices, the basic concept of that kind of episode was right). Or another episode like "All Is Possible" that is about dealing with post-Burn issues, reconciling these groups and getting them ready to face the next big threat.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Present Day Earth is Type 0 (or 0.7) since we still use non-renewable energy sources like fossil fuels.

The Federation was definitely Type I in the 24th century since we know they had the ability to harness energy on a planetary scale. I would argue that the Federation in the 24th century was likely a very advanced Type I, or early Type II, since it was a vast interstellar civilization. If it wasn't for the Burn, we might expect the Federation to have colonized nearly the entire galaxy by the 32nd century and be almost Type III. I would argue that 10-C is a very advanced Type II since they can harness the energy of a star with dyson rings and surround a star system with a hyperfield. 10-C might be even be early Type III since they can send a DMA across intergalactic distances so effortlessly.

So it could be surmised that the people that built the Dyson Sphere™ from Relics would qualify as Type II?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I really love how Booker explained how he got his name "Booker Cleveland".

I still want to see Michael x Booker with a "Happily Ever After" type ending with them being married, with kids.

 

[eschaton]

@eschaton, I'm so surprised to disagree with you! You are usually my Disco twin, pretty much every time I have ever seen a post of yours on Disco, I think to myself "I agree 100%!".

But for me, I have felt very little filler this season (I may revise that opinion after seeing the finale). The DMA story has been exactly what I've been hoping Disco would get to -- a big umbrella story with many specific challenges along the way that must be dispensed with episodically. I've always thought that's the strength on this show, the "New Eden"-type stopovers.

I also think Discovery can't pace up too much, I don't think condensing this would help. Disco generally gets worse as their pacing accelerates -- it just becomes everyone screaming at each other about saving all sentient life in the galaxy. This show really needs season arcs with enough restriction built into them to create pauses for everyone to feel, go to therapy, visit mom, etc -- let out all the emotions that are this shows bread & butter.

I would redistribute the story a little -- I'd drop some beats after Tarka/Book first split off, I have felt filler with those two.

But I'd replace it by extending the buildup. I thought we needed another episode or two like "The Examples" -- a defined mission where the stakes are saving people in the path of the DMA. ("The Examples" was bad, but due to poor execution choices, the basic concept of that kind of episode was right). Or another episode like "All Is Possible" that is about dealing with post-Burn issues, reconciling these groups and getting them ready to face the next big threat.

My point is this really isn't a complicated story. It's basically that the DMA is a danger, and we must locate/communicate with Species 10-C to eliminate the danger. The logical steps - which all occur - are:

• Identify danger
• Identify culprit
• Formulate solution
• Journey to culprit
• Communicate with culprit
• Resolve problem

This is a pretty simple, linear story with a small number of steps. In order to stretch it across the season, Discovery had to break steps down to an absurd degree at times (like making crossing the galactic barrier take an entire episode), or have side adventures. And I agree, the side adventures were stronger overall, and we could have had more of them. Their absence in the second act of the season is why I feel like there was a lot of wasted time between ...But To Connect and now. Saying it could be told in four episodes is pretty extreme - and I'm not sure that would be the ideal length - but it seems true, because you could do everything you needed to (establish Book's trauma, introduce Tarka, create a rupture between Book and Michael) within that period of time. More would be better, but IMHO 14 was too much.

One thing I think this story is missing that would have helped is a definable three-act structure. There certainty was a rupture from Act 1 to Act 2, changing from the semi-episodic adventures to Michael and Book being actively in conflict. But even now, I'm not sure where Act 3 was supposed to begin. It just seems like it has slowly edged into the season endgame, where a more definable break would help enliven the season more.

 

[Romulan_spy]

So it could be surmised that the people that built the Dyson Sphere™ from Relics would qualify as Type II?

Yes, definitely.

 

[Deks]

Present Day Earth is Type 0 (or 0.7) since we still use non-renewable energy sources like fossil fuels.

The Federation was definitely Type I in the 24th century since we know they had the ability to harness energy on a planetary scale. I would argue that the Federation in the 24th century was likely a very advanced Type I, or early Type II, since it was a vast interstellar civilization. If it wasn't for the Burn, we might expect the Federation to have colonized nearly the entire galaxy by the 32nd century and be almost Type III. I would argue that 10-C is a very advanced Type II since they can harness the energy of a star with dyson rings and surround a star system with a hyperfield. 10-C might be even be early Type III since they can send a DMA across intergalactic distances so effortlessly.

I know.
Similar to reality, we are basically Type 0 although we DO have the technological ability to transition to a type II civilization if we wanted to since proposals have been made about that a long time ago, and the technological ability did cought up by 1990-ies so we can disassemble Mercury, etc. - and because of exponential automation construction methodologies, it would have taken us a decade or two to create a partial or a full swarm (and we already had the ability to harness planetary energy since early 20th century in the form of Geothermal - because a first commerical geothermal power plant came into operation in 1911 - which of course is sparsely used to this day due to the socio-economic system we have and emphasis on fossil fuels which apparently, aren't that problematic to dig for and transport across the planet... but for Geothermal suddenly there are 'massive' hurdles - lol... laughable - we could have used volcanoes [both active and inactive ones], easily accessible areas, dug as deep as we could for at least home based heating etc. (take all those bore holes for oil and gas... could have been used for Geothermal from the get go if the effort was there) to be a standard today and electrical production from geothermal increasing vastly [possibly exponentially] over time [which would mean that by now we would have been fully on Geothermal energy for electricity and heat for multiple decades across the entire planet and might have even avoided a lot of issues pertaining to energy production, and environmental pollution too] - alas, we are barely NOW starting to see more use of Geothermal).

Technically, we SHOULD have been a Type I by the mid/late 20th century and then jumping to Type II by the start or very early 21st century... but people apparently prefer to play monopoly and waste their lives instead on killing each other over something as ridiculous as fossil fuels - its the socio-economic system we have plus lack of exposure to relevant general education, critical thinking and problem solving in the general population that are holding us back.

Anyway, the UFP already had everything it needed to at least create Dyson Swarms (not spheres) around every member planet star in the late 24th century... hence why I was disappointed by the lack of UFP advancement in the 32nd century (no Dyson Swarms whatsoever).
In fact, given the process of technical efficiency and exponential developments and returns, the UFP should have been at least on the level of 10-c by the 32nd century... only Galaxy wide (or at least within UFP space)... nearly Type III (with nearest galaxies having Dyson swarms and partly explored... so, they should have gone extragalactic by then).

The Burn happened around 125 years prior to Disco's arrival in 3188 ... since the UFP haven't had Dyson Swarms across the galaxy by then, its very doubtful the time during the Burn (if it didn't happen) would have prompted the UFP to make them (heck, you would have thought that the Burn would indeed prompt at least Earth to make its own Dyson Swarm - or try a full blown Sphere - which should have been doable by then).
The writers were intent on even not changing UFP's method of propulsion or power generation for 930 years (despite several others more efficient and powerful being presented in 24th century... that just goes to show how badly they messed up UFP's progression - which is now unfortunately part of canon - so, the only way I see UFP advancing to that level is from maybe this point onward - that is IF the writers decide to push things into that direction and whether there will be other shows in this era).

Like I said, it was nice they were using the Kardashev scale to describe 10-c (as you said, they'd be more further advanced Type II civilization - close to being type III) but UFP should have already been at that level on a galactic scale and advanced further by the time the Burn happened (3063).

What irks me is the fact that a single species achieved what UFP (a collection of over hundred species) didn't... whereas in fact, it would/should have been the other way around.
Having so many species part of UFP would have accelerated technological and scientific progression to unimaginable levels from the get go... far beyond what a single species is able to do.

But UFP was also presented as having a knack for not pursuing powerful technologies - not due to fear... just purely forgotten (but admittedly, those technologies had little or nothing to do with their ability to make Dyson Swarms - the tech in question was usually centered around genetic augmentation and certain offensive technologies - with only exception in regards to energy being Omega due to its potential for destroying subspace - but even so, again, you don't even need Omega when you have the energy of a whole star to work with... heck 150 stars in the late 24th century would have been ridiculous enough... and there are millions of stars in UFP space alone - all that energy... computing potential which UFP could have used to R&D new ridiculously more powerful energy production technologies which are far more efficient and better than Dilithium and M/AM).

 

[Deks]

So it could be surmised that the people that built the Dyson Sphere™ from Relics would qualify as Type II?

Yes. Albeit from a Trek's point of view, a more advanced Type II which can build an actual shell/sphere - I'm not sure if this species is MORE or less advanced than 10-C though. More advanced than the stage at which 10-C was when they made the Dyson Rings though... but Hyperfield 10-C? Not sure.

In real life, Freeman Dyson discarded the shell/sphere as a realistic option because of all kinds of problems arise with gravity, structural integrity, material requirements etc... he originally suggested a Swarm as a viable option though because it bypasses the gravity and structural issues, and the resource requirements are easily met with Mercury alone (or heck, even the asteroid field would more than suffice), and it gets the same job done.

So, the UFP was already on the level where it could make Swarms easily since the 24th century (because we in real life can build a Swarm if we wanted to in a decade or two)... but the UFP would in that case be considered 'less advanced' Type II than the civilization that built the actual Shell/Sphere (although from a purely 'how much energy they have at their disposal', the UFP would be VASTLY more ahead - so loads more energy from at least 150 stars vs just 1 - in the late 24th century - that's just for starters... the UFP could easily build more Swarms across UFP space and get millions of stars worth of power - and with exponential automated construction, replicators, FTL, etc.. they could easily do all of that in about 50 odd years... remember than once the first swarm is done, it could probably transport a HUGE assortment of contrustion bots to other stars, or just replicate partial swarms around other stars from the get go - transporter range would EASILY be enhanced if you use the Swarm as massive signal/sensor amplification grid).

It was suggested in the previous episode that 10-C made their own Dyson Rings, etc. about 1000 years ago. Huh... I wonder if they may have been the same civilization that built the sphere we saw in TNG inside the Milky Way (but probably not)?

 

[cooleddie74]

I liked this one and quite a bit. A 9.

I wish the earlier episodes had been this rewarding in terms of filling in the gaps of the 10-C.

 

[Deks]

I liked this one and quite a bit. A 9.

I wish the earlier episodes had been this rewarding in terms of filling in the gaps of the 10-C.

My thinking is the season dragged out in meeting 10-c for far too long.
It would have made more sense if these events happened earlier and that this process of communication was extended to 2 episodes... similar in length to 'Arrival' movie and then leave another few episodes to iron out everything else in regards to how Disco goes forward with 10-C, stopping the DMA, etc.

Right now, there's only 1 more episode left in this season... and unless they go for a cliffhanger (which they probably won't), it might end up being a bit 'rushed'.

 

[DaveyNY]

I gave it a 9.
Last week's episode kinda dragged out a bit and I found myself being a bit bored at times, but this week's was intense and held my attention for the full 50 minutes.