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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x09 - "Rubicon"

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Thought the visual of Book jumping only for the Disco to jump right back in front of him was really fun. Could have happily sat through another 5-10 minutes of cat and mouse games between them, but overall a really enjoyable outing.

Tarka’s origins confounded me more than ever after this episode but I’m almost positive we’ll be hopping to his universe for at least one of these final episodes.
 
I've liked this season a lot so far, but...this episode was pretty bad. The previous one already felt like stalling, but I was mostly entertained. I initially didn't care much about the mystery box, but enoyed most sideplots, like Saru's slowly budding love life, Culbert's crisis, Book's quite convincing arc from grief to anger to righteousness. The president not being a jerk or killed, so far, which goes much against old Trek tropes, just like a "good" admiral.

For an episode like this, suspense had to build. Yes, you know nothing will happen to the crew, but a tight plot will make you temporarily forget that. Instead, it was all hemming and hawing and talks and "what-we-really-have-to-hurt-Book-just-because-he-might-destroy the-galaxy?!" reaction shots of the crew and so on. It killed any sense of urgency for me.

While I loved to see Nhan back, her posting made no sense. Yes, have a neutral officer be there to take over if necessary. But she had close bonds with everyone who cared so much about him that they might have to be overruled. The simple explanation was "yeah, but her race always does the right thing" or something like that. Whatever. How interesting could it have been if that officer was really a neutral one, and competent, and right? Could have been some real conflict!

Also, Saru, you just overheard one of the bridge crew being more on the adversaries side; maybe don't take him on that shuttle mission?!

Then Burnham fails in her misson, and that's fine, let her make mistakes! But don't tell us she made the right decision. Book and Tarka (much as I love the former) should have been neutralized three times over with what's at stake.

And did I get that right, if they had given in, the only consequences for Tarka and Book would have been one week of detainment until the crisis was over? I'm all for a more humanist approach to punishment/ resocialization, but there still have to be serious consequences (like, at the very least, no more working with Starfleet for Book, and worse for Tarka, but I assume he'll either escape or die).

In retrospect, the episode title said it all, because Book crossed the Rubicon the minute he went rogue.

5/ 10
 
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And did I get that right, if they had given in, the only consequences for Tarka and Book would have been one week of detainment until the crisis was over? I'm all for a more humanist approach to punishment/ resocialization, but there still have to be serious consequences (like, at the very least, no more working with Starfleet for Book, and worse for Tarka, but I assume he'll either escape or die).
To be fair she was trying to offer them an option that seemed better than the one they were choosing.
 
Another thought: They should have had either Bryce or Rhys die when the shuttle exploded. This would be a case where a death would have great dramatic impact, as it would mean Book's choice had a real consequence that there was no turning back from. The sunk cost fallacy might have caused him to recommit even further. But no, we get a completely bloodless (literally) conflict instead.

I don't know.
I like Bryce... he's also had more screen time. Rhys... not so much (not that I don't like him, but I just think his death wouldn't have much impact for the viewers).

Disco writers are rarely using Detmer, Owo, Rhys, Bryce and what's her name (the blond who's a commander)?

Some potential to be had there... but sadly underused if you ask me.

Also, I'm getting tired of all of the suppositions Tarka - who is a supposed super-genius - has. He had everything figured out, but didn't consider for once the possibility that the power source was on another side of a wormhole? Also, neither he nor Book really think about the possibility that 10-C could easily generate a second DMA. I mean even without a wormhole being involved, it's kinda silly to presume that essentially taking away the "toy" of an advanced race will end the danger forever.

Yeah, same thing got into my head when I was watching that. I mean, if a species is that powerful to create the DMA used for mining, what's stopping them from making another one?
Same principle would be applied to UFP and Spore Drive v2 prototype really. UFP researched it, they have the data, schematics, etc. Just have Vance provide authorization and replicate the freaking thing.
Problem solved.

But for some reason, Tarka (and Burnham) both behave as if there's only 1 piece of tech in existence with 0 scientific data on the process that lead to its creation, schematics, or anything else that would actually make sense... and then he applies the same logic to these aliens (who actually DID just make another DMA - though I never got the impression the first one was destroyed... but rather the controller unit was destroyed sure, but wouldn't that just make the DMA go erratic instead... and if its power source was on the other side, the original DMA was never destroyed - so I may need to rewatch the episode, but that isn't clear).
 
Disco writers are rarely using Detmer, Owo, Rhys, Bryce and what's her name (the blond who's a commander)?

Some potential to be had there... but sadly underused if you ask me.
Can't believe you forgot Nilsson's name! I'm sure they must have mentioned it once.

My feelings on the bridge crew is mixed. When they're barely getting anything to do I want to see them more, but when they do actually get lines their conversations often come off as kind of unnatural. This happens whoever's writing an episode though, so I feel like it's likely due to the series having a distinctive style of dialogue more than it's due to the abilities of the writers (or the actors). For better or worse the series feels very consistent to me this season.
 
Are the writers that dumb?
You should already know the answer to this. Why are you even asking such a rhetorical question.

Having 2 captains on a ship is not too unusual.... Spock and Kirk come to mind... though it IS a waste of resources if you ask me because I think Saru should have been given his own ship (maybe Voyager) and then conduct joint missions with Disco (VOY could have been equipped with the prototype Spore drive).
Saru & Michael are out of time, having them integrate with crew in the current era would be very hard given the vast time gap.

It was just ridiculous when the ships were in literal combat and each of them in turn said "no really, I trust my bae."
That's the power of love!

Nowhere near as dumb as the Sphere data can't be copied, or destroyed IMHO.
I concur, the Alien Sphere Data shouldn't have been able to evolve to take over the local computer's OS.
That's utter BS on StarFleet and whomever wrote their OS.

Honestly, Trek is littered with world-changing technologies which are abandoned immediately after when they are introduced. It's not the way tech works, but given Trek tech only exists for story purposes, I can understand it. Even mundane parts of the Trek universe like replicators have created huge issues for Trek writers, as they eliminate all plots based upon resource scarcity (which is why they were ignored for things like latinum, deuterium, dilithium, etc).
The writers are just dumb and don't understand how to work with advanced tech; so they shove it in a closet, plug their ears, and sing "la la la, the tech isn't here".

This season, the main plot was introduced immediately...and it's all that's going on, other than the crisis of the week.
They copied the JJ Abrams Mystery Box formula from "LOST" and executed poorly on it IMO.

Thought the visual of Book jumping only for the Disco to jump right back in front of him was really fun. Could have happily sat through another 5-10 minutes of cat and mouse games between them, but overall a really enjoyable outing.
Once StarFleet has a near peer that can do the same thing, the battle turns into a Naruto-style teleporting Ninja fight, but with StarShips instead of people.

Tarka’s origins confounded me more than ever after this episode but I’m almost positive we’ll be hopping to his universe for at least one of these final episodes.
What's so confusing about his origin? He's from this Universe, he just needs the power source to meet his BFF/True Love at that specific Universe they both agreed upon if they got seperated. So he's working towards his goal.

I've liked this season a lot so far, but...this episode was pretty bad. The previous one already felt like stalling, but I was mostly entertained. I initially didn't care much about the mystery box, but enoyed most sideplots, like Saru's slowly budding love life, Culbert's crisis, Book's quite convincing arc from grief to anger to righteousness. The president not being a jerk or killed, so far, which goes much against old Trek tropes, just like a "good" admiral.
I also like going against the traditional tropes like having a "Good Admiral", a competent UFP President who gets screen time to develop a proper character and isn't just glorified set dressing to be tossed away once the episode is over. Romance that actually goes somewhere and isn't over & forgotten by the end of the episode.

How many times has JLP had a romantic episode, only to be forgotten. And his love for Dr. Beverly Crusher, well he didn't act on it. He should've been married to Beverly & have a litter of children so Wesley isn't a only child anymore.

And did I get that right, if they had given in, the only consequences for Tarka and Book would have been one week of detainment until the crisis was over? I'm all for a more humanist approach to punishment/ resocialization, but there still have to be serious consequences (like, at the very least, no more working with Starfleet for Book, and worse for Tarka, but I assume he'll either escape or die).
In all fairness to Book: he's not a UFP citizen, he's not StarFleet, he's Michael Burnhams Lover/BF that happens to live on his ship half the time and visit Michael on her ship. He's basically a invited guest in StarFleet / UFP territory.
Book hasn't claimed citizenship with any Sovereign Galactic Nation.

Kweijian is dead and wasn't part of the UFP.
Kweijian was friendly with the UFP at best.

What could StarFleet or UFP charge him with?

Tarka is a different story, he's a UFP citizen and worked for StarFleet. He can be punished 10 ways to Sunday.

In retrospect, the episode title said it all, because Book crossed the Rubicon the minute he went rogue.
I think that applies more to Tarka only. Book never promised allegiance to any Galactic Nation-State or is a member of any.
He doesn't work for any of the major powers, he's a independent contractor loyal to himself & Michael Burnham because of the power of Love.

Book is a man without a country. He's the Han Solo of DISCO, but actually developed a proper romance with the protagonist and is going somewhere with it.

Yeah, same thing got into my head when I was watching that. I mean, if a species is that powerful to create the DMA used for mining, what's stopping them from making another one?
Same principle would be applied to UFP and Spore Drive v2 prototype really. UFP researched it, they have the data, schematics, etc. Just have Vance provide authorization and replicate the freaking thing.
Problem solved.
Even having the computer control the Spore Drive for local area accurate tactical jumping (Not Long Distance: ≥ Light month) would still be useful. The amount of tactics that opens up because you have a Spore Drive 2.0 is crazy.

It's a huge tactical advantage that most opponents of the UFP wouldn't have.

How many teleporting StarShips do you see outside of DISCO & Book's ship?

None so far, imagine if StarFleet had exclusive control of Spore Drive tech, the advantage it would create over any other opponnent that didn't have it.

Yeah, they can work on creating more genetically modifed Biological Navigators for long distance jumping.
That's a seperate issue all together.
 
Also, they surely weren't the only ones to discover spore drive. Some another powers might have had the technology at one point, or still have it.

As for the DMA, i'm not convinced it was a true first contact like Burnham said at the end. For all we know, it was just a burp to those aliens and they simply restarted it...pure indifference.
 
Also, they surely weren't the only ones to discover spore drive. Some another powers might have had the technology at one point, or still have it.

As for the DMA, i'm not convinced it was a true first contact like Burnham said at the end. For all we know, it was just a burp to those aliens and they simply restarted it...pure indifference.
I concur, the 10-C aliens aren't so dumb, so they placed their Power Source on their side and the DMA Field generator is basically disposable and placed on the other end of the Worm Hole.

The 10-C aliens must've factored in that their DMA Controller could be lost or destroyed for any # of reasons, so they made it easily replaceable.
 
Now I'm starting to see how Book can get back on good terms with Michael and Discovery. The seeds are planted where Book warned them about what Tarka was doing. They found a middle ground... and then Tarka fucked it up.

I have to say that this episode spoke to today's society and not being able to find a middle ground. Even I myself have come to think of "the middle ground" as a thing of the past. That happened some time around 2010 due to Current Events at the time and became even worse from 2015 on and spilled over into everything else, not just politics.

I think Vance should've put someone else in command of Discovery -- someone from outside -- but this is a TV Series and we need our main characters, so I'm good with having Nhan instead. Like I said before, she's made the tough call before when Burnham couldn't and it's nice character continuity.

Nhan's backstory since we saw her last time makes sense. She'd have no family to go back to really, and couldn't talk about her background, so returning to Starfleet made sense. She's someone who's served on Discovery but has now also served elsewhere since returning to Starfleet. So, if she does return permanently, she'll have a perspective that most of the other crew doesn't.

I give the episode an 8.

TMP Parallel: Tarka is like the Klingons who open fire. Discovery is trying to make contact with 10-C the right way, like the Enterprise was trying to make contact with V'Ger the right way.
 
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In all fairness to Book: he's not a UFP citizen, he's not StarFleet, he's Michael Burnhams Lover/BF that happens to live on his ship half the time and visit Michael on her ship. He's basically a invited guest in StarFleet / UFP territory.
Book hasn't claimed citizenship with any Sovereign Galactic Nation.

Kweijian is dead and wasn't part of the UFP.
Kweijian was friendly with the UFP at best.

What could StarFleet or UFP charge him with?

Tarka is a different story, he's a UFP citizen and worked for StarFleet. He can be punished 10 ways to Sunday.
Book is an accomplice to Tarka's theft of the prototype spore drive on Federation jurisdiction. Doesn't matter what Book's citizenship is. He'll be treated no different than foreign spies/agents in the real world. He committed a crime on a Federation starship, theft.
 
We have a new ship name to add to the Starfleet Registry - the USS Mitchell. I am curious to know if this ship was an homage to Gary Mitchell.

From their track record with ship names we know these writers have a weakness for American Aviation history so I'm thinking it's likely "officially" named for Col. Billy Mitchell, Father of the US Air Force.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mitchell
 
Book is an accomplice to Tarka's theft of the prototype spore drive on Federation jurisdiction. Doesn't matter what Book's citizenship is. He'll be treated no different than foreign spies/agents in the real world. He committed a crime on a Federation starship, theft.
Technically Tarka committed the crime, Book was only his getaway driver that he convinced to leave and used Book's grief to convince him to go along with Tarka's plan.
 
Technically Tarka committed the crime, Book was only his getaway driver that he convinced to leave and used Book's grief to convince him to go along with Tarka's plan.
Getaway drivers are legally culpable as accomplices in crimes in the real world. Why would it suddenly be different in the 32nd century?

Book had his ship parked in Discovery. He was on Federation jurisdiction. He helped a crime occur on Fed jurisdiction. That's it. He also since admitted he knew what he was doing and didn't think he was just taking Tarka to lunch, or something.
 
Another thought: They should have had either Bryce or Rhys die when the shuttle exploded. This would be a case where a death would have great dramatic impact, as it would mean Book's choice had a real consequence that there was no turning back from. The sunk cost fallacy might have caused him to recommit even further. But no, we get a completely bloodless (literally) conflict instead.

I don't know if either of their deaths would have any significance.
Bryce's death maybe... but Rhys?
I'm afraid both were a bit underused throughout the series (along with the blonde commander).


Also, I'm getting tired of all of the suppositions Tarka - who is a supposed super-genius - has. He had everything figured out, but didn't consider for once the possibility that the power source was on another side of a wormhole? Also, neither he nor Book really think about the possibility that 10-C could easily generate a second DMA. I mean even without a wormhole being involved, it's kinda silly to presume that essentially taking away the "toy" of an advanced race will end the danger forever.
I talked about this earlier in the season, but I feel like a major shortcoming of Discovery is that essentially all of the characters are written to be loving/supportive allies all the time. Doesn't matter who we're talking about, or who they're talking to, if they need a shoulder to cry on they'll have it. This is...boring. It makes me miss Georgiou TBH, because at least someone on the show used to be a dick on purpose. Now we only get Stamets doing it occasionally on accident, and even then, he apologizes.

I'll say this, one of the better things of older Trek was that the crew didn't leave an impression as if they need to be coddled all the time.
They appeared as mostly strong, competent/capable people. Sure, they occasionally needed a friendly shoulder to cry on, and that was fine (because it wasn't overdone like it is on Discovery)... but what Disco is doing is effectively babying its crew to the point where you think they are going to break down if the situation gets just a little bit more difficult.

This I think is a 'reflection' of increasingly over-sensitive society we also live in... so I think Disco goes out of its way to create a loving/supporting environment... which is fine... but you can have that would treating people as if they are made of glass at the same time (because, if you do, it just does more damage than good).

It was just ridiculous when the ships were in literal combat and each of them in turn said "no really, I trust my bae."

That felt out of the blue I have to admit. Don't get me wrong, it was nice to see, but given they were on opposing sides, it did feel quite absurd.

I will say this: The compromise idea threw me for a loop and made me doubt whether the explosion would go off for a second. I went into this presuming that it had to, because...four more episodes and all. But a week of additional time is enough of a ticking clock to theoretically fit four episodes, so for a few minutes I was actually fooled into thinking the outcome was in doubt.

To me what Burnham proposed as a compromise seemed a bit absurd in itself.
At first I even wondered if she could even back this idea of hers and why woud Vance support it?. The UFP can be forgiving yes and they remain accurate to their word (They aren't really in the business of lying to people - and I like that), but up until now, they basically treated Booker's and Tarka's stealing of Spore Drive prototype as a huge offense/crime... and went on a self appointed mission to destroy the DMA without considering how this could impact the greater galaxy.
I mean, how did Burnham expect Vance and UFP to go along with her proposal? She was also not seen clearing this with Vance or anyone in UFP (not even a mention).

I know SF captains can grant asylums and all, but this is a bit different. Also, how could she guarantee that the UFP would BACK them in destroying the DMA if they failed to make FC with the species in the next week?

Which made the explosion happening a bit of a whipsaw. Not to mention the tone afterwards was just all wrong, ending with the heart-to-heart with Nhan and more Saru/T'Rina relationship drama. I honestly think a cut to black after the explosion would be much better, with a few of those scenes held over till next week.

Heart to heart with Nhan was definitely out of place... in fact, there's too much of heart to heart happening on Disco to the point where it seems really fake and forced.
I didn't mind Saru/T'Rine relationship drama, but I would have thought theur relationship would have progressed further already once Ni'Var was admitted into UFP and they went for that tea after the talks.
Talk about 'milking it' (but then again, VOY did something similar with Torres and Paris which stretched out for much longer - although that relationship arose from intiial friendship and given the circumstances, I guess it developed in a bit more organic capacity).
Here in Disco, both Saru and T'Rina were giving off clear signals to each other... and then Saru acts as if 'is it or not?'
I mean, he could have just ASKED her.

Nowhere near as dumb as the Sphere data can't be copied, or destroyed IMHO.

Copied? That was already done in Season 2. Destroyed is more difficult because of a comprehensive adaptive AI algorithms that worked with obscure languages to protect itself.
I mean, a more easier method would have been to destroy the ship by pummeling it with continuous torpedoes... and yet, back in Season 2... they fired one or two torpedoes at Disco, and then found out that the Sphere Data erected its shields and gave up?.
I mean, come on... you could have continued firing at it to erode the shields... but then again, I guess the potential danger was that the S.D. could have fought back and disabled or destroyed the Enterprise in turn.

Honestly, Trek is littered with world-changing technologies which are abandoned immediately after when they are introduced. It's not the way tech works, but given Trek tech only exists for story purposes, I can understand it. Even mundane parts of the Trek universe like replicators have created huge issues for Trek writers, as they eliminate all plots based upon resource scarcity (which is why they were ignored for things like latinum, deuterium, dilithium, etc).

This is what I hate about Trek.
UFP is clearly capable of making massive advances in short periods of time all on its own, but yet the writers don't move the needle forward.
That's why I was disappointed with the 32nd century. It seemed less advanced than the 24th century to be fair (sans maybe programmable matter - and even then replicators already do pretty much the same).
By the 32nd, UFP should have been a Type III civilization on its was of becoming Type IV (and spreading to other galaxies and harnessing them via Dyson Swarms for example and using TW beaming for a LOT of things, with power sources vastly different from what we saw in the 24th century and FAR more powerful - I mean, realistically, Dilithium and M/AM would have been abandoned by the late 24th century or mid 25th at the latest given everything we saw in TNG, DS9 and VOY even).

I actually think Season 3's arc worked better in a way because it was a linear story, but not a single arc. Episodes 1-2 were about reuniting the crew. 2-5 were about finding Starfeet and integrating within it. 6-11 were about finding the cause of the Burn (with added side quests). 12-13 were just about defeating Osyraa.

This season, the main plot was introduced immediately...and it's all that's going on, other than the crisis of the week.

I kinda got the impression both S3 and S4 main plots were done in a pretty similar capacity.
Oh and Osyraa shouldn't have been much of a threat even with a UFP diminished to only about 35 member worlds (but the whole Burn plot was very dumb if you ask me in universe wise).

I wanted to see Trek pushed forward... to explore far more advanced UFP spreading into the universe and dealing with say 'higher concepts'.
 
Getaway drivers are legally culpable as accomplices in crimes in the real world. Why would it suddenly be different in the 32nd century?
Because Tarka manipulated Book into leaving and going along with his crazy plan.

Michael has shown that Book is very reasonable and Book has shown that he's willing to change game plans once Michael came up with the new game plan that would wait one week.

Tarka just decided to take actions on his own.
 
Because Tarka manipulated Book into leaving and going along with his crazy plan.

Michael has shown that Book is very reasonable and Book has shown that he's willing to change game plans once Michael came up with the new game plan that would wait one week.

Tarka just decided to take actions on his own.
As someone who works with real life law enforcement in my job, that's just not going to clear Book at all unless the legal system is very different in the 32nd century.

And all indications are that it isn't. Book says he already knows the Fed will punish him.
 
As someone who works with real life law enforcement in my job, that's just not going to clear Book at all unless the legal system is very different in the 32nd century.

And all indications are that it isn't. Book says he already knows the Fed will punish him.
Then I guess he'll have to ask for forgiveness with the UFP or Michael & Book are going to have to figure out someway to make their relationship work while Book is a criminal within the UFP / StarFleet territories.

Maybe Michael Burnham has worked with President Rillek enough to get her enough Political Currency to get the President to Pardon Book?

I wouldn't be surprised if they threw Tarka under the bus and made him a criminal and forced him back into Scientific Servitude under "House Arrest".
 
Maybe Michael Burnham has worked with President Rillek enough to get her enough Political Currency to get the President to Pardon Book?.
That's a possibility. The other is that Book isn't imprisoned but basically expelled from Federation territory and banned from ever returning.
 
That's a possibility. The other is that Book isn't imprisoned but basically expelled from Federation territory and banned from ever returning.
At that point, Michael might resign her commission and join Book out there in the great unknown as a courier again.

Love is powerful, but I think Book will get forgiven at the end.

I'm still shipping Michael Burnham x Booker Cleveland.

I want them to have a happy ending with many children.
 
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