Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x04 - "All Is Possible"

[The Habs Fan]

I've read every review so far on IMDB where this is currently collectively ranked at 4.2/10...and you come to this thread on the biggest Trek message board on the interwebs, and it's mostly praise for the episode. While this one falls flat in spots, it's probably the most classic Trek formulas of the season. I'm not sure if most of the "fans" of Trek are actually fans if almost all the "reviews" are 1/10. I generally like the episode and the series. The highpoint is the All Is Possible snowglobe...possibly the most Star Trek thing you could ever do as a snowglobe. Gonna miss Tilly...though after losing the first two ships she's left to command, maybe the Academy is a better place for her?

Discovery has been review bombed on IMDB since the beginning because of the Alec Peters idiocy and Michael Burnham being a black woman. Now it’s even worse because of all of the LGBTQ representation. We should all go rate it 10s to counteract it.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh and now Burnham has saved the entire Federation....AGAIN!

Just wait until Pike does it.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

5 LIGHT YEARS WIDE AND TRAVELS AT WARP.

When did they say the DMA travels at Warp?

I must've missed it because I know it moves, but I don't remember it being stated that it moves at FTL.

 

[Paul755]

Best episode of the season and it’s not close. This felt like old-school Star Trek. Very DS9 like.

Culber is becoming the mvp of the show, really like his arc so far. And it’s a really inventive way to write out Tilly.

Not a fan of Burnham herself being the solution though. That one got an eye roll for me.

this episode also provides a window into the one of the big problems Disco has had since day 1. This is a perfect episode if you are doing a 20 episode season with loose serialization. In a heavy serialized 13 episode season, episodes like this mean the resolution to the main arc is likely to be crammed into the last 15 minutes of the finale.

Gave it an 8.

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

So what exactly is Kovich's position? Head of Starfleet Medical? We know he was important enough to be next to Vance when the Emerald Chain was attacking last season.

I remember reading that he's a historian and a Terran Empire expert. But now I can't find that article...

That’s correct, Cronenberg said Kovich was just that, a cultural historian who happens to be an expert on the Terran Empire, and it was in an excerpt from an interview in Star Trek Explorer magazine at StarTrek.com

 

[Ometiklan]

Overall about the same as last week, maybe slightly better. Good attempts at all three stories. No major flaws or idiocy, with only the cadets story being a little boring/rote. I give this one a 7.
So, 6, 8, 6, 7 so far this season for me - on average exactly on par with last season at this point.

The "A plot" involving Michael and Saru on Ni'Var was way disappointing to me...The worse aspect of this to me though was that the interesting parts of the internal conflict on Ni'Var - what the issue with the Federation really was - weren't actually explained....

Turning to the "B plot" with Tilly, Adira and the cadets, this is something we've seen many times before - both the shuttlecraft crash and dealing with a squabbling bunch of newbies - and unfortunately, it's been done way better elsewhere. Since it's not a new/interesting scenario, the key to these plots working is interesting character dynamics, which I felt was lacking...

I will say I uncritically loved the scenes with Book and Culber - they were by far the best part of this episode...

I agree to all of these. The Ni'Var and Book/Culber stories were the best of the lot today. But the Ni'Var and cadets' story were not nearly as fleshed out as they needed to be. They were all surface-level stuff. Surface-level complaints from the cadets and surface-level stuff from the Vulcans/Romulans. One quick interaction, Burnham thinks for a minute or Tilly tells one cadet to tell his backstory, and boom all problems are solved.

This gets back to the problem with Discovery's serialization. Having to service three (or 4) plots each week, they only have time for about 3 scenes for each plot: intro problem, discuss for a minute, solve. There is no time for actual dilemmas, no weighing of options, no conundrums or barriers, no ethical or moral decisions to make. Just get on to the next story beat. Just like last week we didn't learn more than about 3 surface-level details about the hibernating alien race (who were the most interesting part of the whole episode), there were no real barriers to finishing the mission other than a bit of fisticuffs and a quick tech fix, and no real exploration of why the Warrior Nun (TM) did what she did [because PLOT!] when there were many less violent options, all because there was no time.

The 32nd century is so primitive, even more so than the 23rd...

...Apparently, Disco writers opted to NOT use programmable matter for repairs in the field. Even though its quite clear they can use it for exactly that.
Ah well... chalk it up to one of those 'intentional forgetfulness' scenarios Trek is famous for...

Well, Discovery and its writers simply aren't interested in anything about the science fiction part of the show. It could take place in 2180, 2280, 2380, or 3180. The timeframe doesn't matter, and neither does the technology - they just write the characters to do what they "always do in Trek" regardless of the actual setting. This is at least the third episode this season where someone dies and there is only a rudimentary attempt to save them: "well all I have are these cloth bandages in this medkit, so I guess this guy's a goner."

If I had to synthesize a conclusion about the show from the above points, I would say the writers just don't care about the WHY of anything nor the implications of they things they put on screen. They are interested in hitting these character moments for their main characters, not in the coherency of the story or plot, or in fleshing out or fully using the future setting - it's just window dressing or framing for their character beats. Which for the most part are good character beats, just a little insubstantial in terms of the bigger picture.

 

[Amaris]

When did they say the DMA travels at Warp?

I must've missed it because I know it moves, but I don't remember it being stated that it moves at FTL.

Well it either moves FTL, or it just pops up randomly in places, making it even more dangerous than if it were to move at warp. If it moves at light speed, it would take years to move between star systems, and there would be ample time to warn people. Since it was stated that the anomaly's path was unpredictable, then it's likely either moving at warp speeds at random, or it can pop in and out of spacetime at random, and reappear anywhere. Either way, we're talking about something that is a 5 light year across instant death star.

So, to sum up:

* 5 light years across, larger than the distance between our Sun and just shy of Barnard's star.
* Unpredictable, it changes direction according to Tilly.
* Appears out of nowhere despite starships having faster than light sensors.

So it is not constrained by light speed, nor apparently by physics as we know them. Considering all of the inhabited planets in that part of space, everyone should be essentially shitting dilithium to get the hell out of there.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

* 5 light years across, larger than the distance between our Sun and just shy of Barnard's star.
* Unpredictable, it changes direction according to Tilly.
* Appears out of nowhere despite starships having faster than light sensors.

If StarShips can't detect it despite having Super Luminal (FTL) sensors.

It must be hiding in a layer of Subspace that either can't be scanned or nobody knows how to scan, either way, nobody has any sensor tech that can track it yet.

The DMA might be moving at FTL while submerged into whatever realm of Subspace or whatever Dimension it's from, but at STL when it pops out into Normal Space.

So the dangerous part seems to be the lack of predictability once it surfaces.

Kind of like a Hurricane sneaking about and poping out of nowhere and and surprising you when you're not ready for it.

 

[Amaris]

If StarShips can't detect it despite having Super Luminal (FTL) sensors.

It must be hiding in a layer of Subspace that either can't be scanned or nobody knows how to scan, either way, nobody has any sensor tech that can track it yet.

The DMA might be moving at FTL while submerged into whatever realm of Subspace or whatever Dimension it's from, but at STL when it pops out into Normal Space.

So the dangerous part seems to be the lack of predictability once it surfaces.

Kind of like a Hurricane sneaking about and poping out of nowhere and and surprising you when you're not ready for it.

Apparently, they are tracking it, that's the thing. In her log, Burnham mentions that they've been tracking it and studying it over the past week, and it hasn't taken out any other inhabited worlds yet.

So I really don't think they understand how big they've made this thing. Again, 5 ly across? It's going to bump into solar systems like a pinball machine. They keep using the term "inhabited worlds" like they mention the planet Kieshan being destroyed, and again, speaking in sheer size, none of it works, because a 5 ly gravitational anomaly isn't going to take one planet and just tap a nearby station out of orbit, it's big enough to consume entire solar systems with room left over for the ones next door.

Our solar system is approximately 180 AU across from "tip to tip."
The anomaly is 316,200+ AU (the largest black hole in existence, TON 618 is 2,606 AU across).

It would absolutely swallow us, and all of Proxima Centauri next to us, with enough room left over to be within a light year of the system of Barnard's Star.

I really think they went too big.

 

[XCV330]

Apparently, they are tracking it, that's the thing. In her log, Burnham mentions that they've been tracking it and studying it over the past week, and it hasn't taken out any other inhabited worlds yet.

So I really don't think they understand how big they've made this thing. Again, 5 ly across? It's going to bump into solar systems like a pinball machine. They keep using the term "inhabited worlds" like they mention the planet Kieshan being destroyed, and again, speaking in sheer size, none of it works, because a 5 ly gravitational anomaly isn't going to take one planet and just tap a nearby station out of orbit, it's big enough to consume entire solar systems with room left over for the ones next door.

Our solar system is approximately 180 AU across from "tip to tip."
The anomaly is 316,200+ AU (the largest black hole in existence, TON 618 is 2,606 AU across).

It would absolutely swallow us, and all of Proxima Centauri next to us, with enough room left over to be within a light year of the system of Barnard's Star.

I really think they went too big.

like the time the screenwriter for TMP didn't know what an AU was.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Apparently, they are tracking it, that's the thing. In her log, Burnham mentions that they've been tracking it and studying it over the past week, and it hasn't taken out any other inhabited worlds yet.

So I really don't think they understand how big they've made this thing. Again, 5 ly across? It's going to bump into solar systems like a pinball machine. They keep using the term "inhabited worlds" like they mention the planet Kieshan being destroyed, and again, speaking in sheer size, none of it works, because a 5 ly gravitational anomaly isn't going to take one planet and just tap a nearby station out of orbit, it's big enough to consume entire solar systems with room left over for the ones next door.

Our solar system is approximately 180 AU across from "tip to tip."
The anomaly is 316,200+ AU (the largest black hole in existence, TON 618 is 2,606 AU across).

It would absolutely swallow us, and all of Proxima Centauri next to us, with enough room left over to be within a light year of the system of Barnard's Star.

I really think they went too big.

According to Memory Alpha, the DMA has these characteristics:
The DMA measured five light years in diameter and exhibited a gravity well and gravitational distortions consistent with a wormhole. It produced subspace gravitational waves of extreme power, causing catastrophic gravitational shearing to any object within twelve AU of its ergosphere. It was surrounded by an accretion cloud containing debris and a massive amount of dark matter. It did not emit tachyons. The anomaly moved through space and was capable of changing direction.

While the DMA itself is 5 ly across, the 12 AU Volume/Area within the ErgoSphere, right outside the Event Horizon of whatever is at the center of the DMA is the part that has the exhibited "Extreme Subspace Gravitational Waves that cause catastrophic gravitational shearing". By that logic, that means area's past 12 AU's stretching from the Event Horizon will be weaker the farther you get away from the initial 12 AU's right outside the Event Horizon of whatever is at the center of all this.

That makes sense for many natural phenomena IRL following the Inverse-Square law. The further you are from the source of emission, the less intense the effects are the further you're away.

The radius / size of the Event Horizon is the piece of information that we're missing and how fast is it moving in Normal Space and how many times has it submerged back to where it came from.

Because nothing in Normal Space breaks the "Speed of Light Barrier" without using tricks like Warp Drive to bypass the "Speed of Light Barrier".

But since this seems to be a phenomenan and not a person or ship, I'm willing to rule out that it can move at FTL while within our normal space.

That said, we don't know when it'll submerge back to where-ever it came from and move at FTL speeds while submerged.

We don't know when it'll choose to pop out and what mechanisms determines if it pops out.

We also don't know if it just pops out randomly or if there is a pattern.

This DMA feels like a massive Hurricane that can submerge back to where-ever it came from and pop out and wreck normal space whenever it chooses to emerge.

 

[Amaris]

like the time the screenwriter for TMP didn't know what an AU was.

Yeah, there just comes a point where you have to be like "folks, folks, tone it down, just a little." I mean, 22 AUs is the distance from the Sun to Uranus, and that was seen as monstrously huge (and it is!).

A 5 light year wide gravitational anomaly is just much too large. Can you imagine the gravitational effect rippling outward beyond the presence of a 5 light year wide gravitational anomaly? It would be like a Supernova everywhere, all the time in a hundreds of light years region of space, and changing direction at random. That's why I've called it a threat to the entire galaxy.

 

[Jadeb]

I have to applaud Discovery for taking on some serious, timely themes this season. It feels like the show has a point-of-view and things to say, which I’ve found lacking at times in the past. But, boy, that was a lot of trauma. It really struck me when Culber was talking about snapping fingers off a loved one’s corpse, and it kept going from there. Lots of grief, lots of unresolved conflict, lots of dysfunction and distrust. Maybe it’s the pandemic and my own mental state, but I find it a little hard to say I “enjoyed” the episode. That’s not to say it was bad, just perhaps not what I, personally, needed (or at least wanted) from my Trek fix right now. But I hope other people find value in it.

 

[Amaris]

According to Memory Alpha, the DMA has these characteristics:
The DMA measured five light years in diameter and exhibited a gravity well and gravitational distortions consistent with a wormhole. It produced subspace gravitational waves of extreme power, causing catastrophic gravitational shearing to any object within twelve AU of its ergosphere. It was surrounded by an accretion cloud containing debris and a massive amount of dark matter. It did not emit tachyons. The anomaly moved through space and was capable of changing direction.

While the DMA itself is 5 ly across, the 12 AU Volume/Area within the ErgoSphere, right outside the Event Horizon of whatever is at the center of the DMA is the part that has the exhibited "Extreme Subspace Gravitational Waves that cause catastrophic gravitational shearing". By that logic, that means area's past 12 AU's stretching from the Event Horizon will be weaker the farther you get away from the initial 12 AU's right outside the Event Horizon of whatever is at the center of all this.

That makes sense for many natural phenomena IRL following the Inverse-Square law. The further you are, the less intense the effects are the further you're away.

The radius / size of the Event Horizon is the piece of information that we're missing and how fast is it moving in Normal Space and how many times has it submerged back to where it came from.

Because nothing in Normal Space breaks the "Speed of Light Barrier" without using tricks like Warp Drive to bypass the "Speed of Light Barrier".

But since this seems to be a phenomenan and not a person or ship, I'm willing to rule out that it can move at FTL while within our normal space.

That said, we don't know when it'll submerge back to where-ever it came from and move at FTL speeds while submerged.

We don't know when it'll choose to pop out and what mechanisms determines if it pops out.

We also don't know if it just pops out randomly or if there is a pattern.

This DMA feels like a massive Hurricane that can submerge back to where-ever it came from and pop out and wreck normal space whenever it chooses to emerge.

Even keeping in mind the Inverse Square law, there's no physical reason why a 5 ly wide anomaly would only a have a disruption pattern 12 AUs in size, it would be like a 500 foot tall giant who only needs to wear size 13 sneakers. I truly do not think they knew what they were writing. There's no way a 316,205 AU object only puts out a gravitational disruption 12 AUs across. There's just no way.

I'm really curious to know the thought process behind creating this thing aside from "make it bigger!"

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Yeah, there just comes a point where you have to be like "folks, folks, tone it down, just a little." I mean, 22 AUs is the distance from the Sun to Uranus, and that was seen as monstrously huge (and it is!).

A 5 light year wide gravitational anomaly is just much too large. Can you imagine the gravitational effect rippling outward beyond the presence of a 5 light year wide gravitational anomaly? It would be like a Supernova everywhere, all the time in a hundreds of light years region of space, and changing direction at random. That's why I've called it a threat to the entire galaxy.

It could potentially mess with Star Systems natural orbit around the SMBH at the center of our Galaxy.

The Gravitational Waves itself, even if it was far enough to not destroy anything, it could mess with Planet's orbits.

Even keeping in mind the Inverse Square law, there's no physical reason why a 5 ly wide anomaly would only a have a disruption pattern 12 AUs in size, it would be like a 500 foot tall giant who only needs to wear size 13 sneakers. I truly do not think they knew what they were writing. There's no way a 316,205 AU object only puts out a gravitational disruption 12 AUs across. There's just no way.

I'm really curious to know the thought process behind creating this thing aside from "make it bigger!"

It's not that it "ONLY" has a disruption pattern of 12 AU's radius from the Event Horizon.

It's that the INITIAL 12 AU's from the Event Horizon is where it's the STRONGEST or MOST Extreme and the further you are away from it, it gets "less intense".

The DMA is still 5 ly wide in diameter.

So even being on the outter edge of it would be like standing at the outter edge of a Hurricane. Nothing good can come from it.

 

[Amaris]

It could potentially mess with Star Systems natural orbit around the SMBH at the center of our Galaxy.

The Gravitational Waves itself, even if it was far enough to not destroy anything, it could mess with Planet's orbits.

Which goes back to my wanting to know what they were thinking when they said "let's make it 5 light years across." Something as big as Jupiter? Sure. As big as the Sun? Wow! Let's make it 5,878,626,000,000,000,000 times bigger than that!

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Which goes back to my wanting to know what they were thinking when they said "let's make it 5 light years across." Something as big as Jupiter? Sure. As big as the Sun? Wow! Let's make it 5,878,626,000,000,000,000 times bigger than that!

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The Show Runners & Creative wanted to make a threat that is as all encompassing as COVID is IRL.

They didn't want to create a problem that was just like COVID, but they wanted a threat that was on a similar scale that it affected everybody.

That's why they came up with the DMA.

Why they choose to make it that big?

Ask the writing staff on how they came up with the DMA and why they made it so big?

I'm pretty sure that some members of the writing staff are available on Twitter.

 

[Amaris]

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The Show Runners & Creative wanted to make a threat that is as all encompassing as COVID is IRL.

They didn't want to create a problem that was just like COVID, but they wanted a threat that was on a similar scale that it affected everybody.

That's why they came up with the DMA.

Why they choose to make it that big?

Ask the writing staff on how they came up with the DMA and why they made it so big?

I'm pretty sure that some members of the writing staff are available on Twitter.

I went ahead and asked them. Hopefully I can get an answer if they have time.

 

[Yistaan]

That’s correct, Cronenberg said Kovich was just that, a cultural historian who happens to be an expert on the Terran Empire, and it was in an excerpt from an interview in Star Trek Explorer magazine at StarTrek.com

See, Discovery isn't just ripping off TOS and they're not going back to the Khan well anymore! If they were, Kovich would've gone all McGivers and have been bedding Osyraa last season and helping her take over Starfleet Command.

 

[Quinton]

I have to applaud Discovery for taking on some serious, timely themes this season. It feels like the show has a point-of-view and things to say, which I’ve found lacking at times in the past. But, boy, that was a lot of trauma. It really struck me when Culber was talking about snapping fingers off a loved one’s corpse, and it kept going from there. Lots of grief, lots of unresolved conflict, lots of dysfunction and distrust. Maybe it’s the pandemic and my own mental state, but I find it a little hard to say I “enjoyed” the episode. That’s not to say it was bad, just perhaps not what I, personally, needed (or at least wanted) from my Trek fix right now. But I hope other people find value in it.

Fascinating post - thanks for sharing. I can totally see where you're coming from. This is the sort of outside perspective I treasure from internet discourse.