These sites were referenced because contrary to this forum, they gave poor reviews for this episode AND have a degree of objectivity to them. That was my point. Whether they think this episode is the worst one Discovery has ever managed is irrelevant. I think it's the worst episode in the series. The point that led to this is the absurdity of this episode (and every other in this series) getting mostly a 10 rating and then people pointing to that rating to say "See! It can't as bad as you say! It's got mostly a 10 rating!!!"
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x13 - "That Hope Is You, Part 2"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Again, what objectivity? We all have biases and perspectives. I can find a site with 10s and you can find a site with 1s.
The truth likely lies in the middle and is still subjective based upon personal experience. That's why I generally don't worry about ratings. If you liked it, great. If not, that's OK too.
ETA: And the push back I see against 10 ratings is the same reaction I have to calling an episode "the worst ever!" It likely isn't the best ever, and probably isn't the worst ever either.
The truth likely lies in the middle and is still subjective based upon personal experience. That's why I generally don't worry about ratings. If you liked it, great. If not, that's OK too.
Because art is subjective.
ETA: And the push back I see against 10 ratings is the same reaction I have to calling an episode "the worst ever!" It likely isn't the best ever, and probably isn't the worst ever either.
I don't put any stock in "But it got mostly a 10!" either. I gave it an 8. And I know I lean pro. I know I have a slant and wouldn't pretend otherwise, because it's just my take.
The truth, as much as is possible when it comes to opinion, is in the middle. I just cited sources that require thousands of people voting, where the average of their scores -- the summary of their consensus -- hovered in the middle.
Saying "this is the worst ever!" is also a slant and a disregard of that consensus from those other places. But most of the people who say so seem to lack the awareness of it.
I won't ignore a consensus with a melting pot of different opinions just because it doesn't back up what I personally think. But too many people who are anti-Discovery will.
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so seem to do those who say that the numerous negative reviews are due a conspiracy...
I think some are from the Fandom Menace. There is a concerted effort of repeated talking points around various sites I've seen. Conspiracy? I mean, technically...
I think the opinions and reviews of people who aren't monetized are genuine.
It's only when I think they're monetized, and appeal specifically to an audience with a particular slant, that I question it. Some rando on the internet who says "This is the worst!", I believe they think that. I think they're wrong, but I don't doubt this is their opinion. Midnight's Edge on the other hand: they have to give a negative take no matter what. To do otherwise would cause their subscriber base to tune out and thus damage their business model.
I feel bad for the people who hate the show but listen to The Fandom Menace and take their word as gospel because I think the Fandom Menace is taking advantage of them to line their pockets, so they can spew hate for a living instead of getting a real job.
and of course you and others keep repeating that with no attempt to prove it.
I don't feel the need to prove it. You don't need to believe me. In fact I don't expect most people too.
Who are you quoting there? The reason I mentioned the ratings it's getting is because the ones you listed are generally considered, by fans of Trek and the episodes' respective series, to be the worst episodes of the franchise and there's some level of consensus there - and you're so widely missing the point regarding consensus that I'm beginning to think it's deliberate - to show that aside from personal views (I personally love the ENT finale, but most don't... it's just a personal view, it doesn't speak to its actual quality) those episodes are generally considered the worst. This, by a long shot it seems, doesn't deserve to be thought of in that way because it doesn't have the consensus. Anyway, there's one thing we can agree upon; this has become absurd. I'm out of this particular discussion as the dead donkey can't be flogged to death more than once. I will end by repeating what I said earlier, I've no issue with somebody hating something - you're entitled to your personal view, as is everyone else. However, if you read your original post back it's clear it wasn't only personal opinion (hall of fame, etc) but an attempt to lob it in with widely derided episodes. That's why I mentioned consensus.
why do you feel the need to repeat so often such an exceptional theory and at the same time don’t feel the need to prove it, then?
I don't think I've repeated but maybe once in this particular thread. Maybe twice. I don't think it is exception-I think it's pretty standard fan behavior at times. The internet just provides more vocal presence for it.
I don't feel the need to prove it because I'm not here to change anyone's mind.
Twice in this thread and at least once in every other discovery episode thread, then? Sounds like repeating to me. And sounds like you are trying to spread your theory, “changing someone’s mind”, if you will.
I don't recall other threads or mentioning the ratings...
I really don't care about ratings all that much.And I don't care if people believe me or not. So, no, I'm not trying to change minds. I state what I think.
You nailed it to the wall with this bit about modern fandom, Garth-great work.
Does STC count?
I just thought of the Wall from Solar Opposites....
Because most people equate the Star Trek theme with Star Trek and not Archer's theme.
I took it to mean it would be going back to the TOS themes of long lost planets and colonies out at the frontier, visiting down on their luck miners, lost Star Fleet ships and colonies left to their own devices for much to long, and other common TOS tropes, which I am greatly looking forward to.
If we're only counting canon, official series, no.
But ST:C had an amazing series finale.
This is my opinion as well. I wouldn't say I'm anti-Discovery. Some of the earlier episodes this season were quite good. But the season fell off a cliff after the MU two partner and this finale was just awful. Really bad.
