Some times.
And I don't think it is necessary. Star Trek is not a vehicle for social change that fans were told that it is.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x13 - "That Hope Is You, Part 2"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
And I don't think it is necessary. Star Trek is not a vehicle for social change that fans were told that it is.
Yeah, it’s entertainment, first and foremost. But there are certain qualities that have separated it from other pop culture franchises, that have given it an identity, and thoughtfulness and humanitarianism are two of those qualities. It would do well, from my perspective, to preserve what makes it different.
I find it thoughtful enough as it stands. Hopefully it continues forward in to Season 4 and explores different themes, like the dilithium shortage. Plenty of room for commentary in there.
Last edited:
Years and years ago, on another board...I did this for TUC, which is an unmitigated fan darling of a film.
It was one of the most lengthy posts I've ever written, pointing out every plot hole, every writing flaw, every cheap moment, every anti-Roddenberry element of the film.
I'm pretty sure it was in response to the 2009 reboot film and all the mind-numbing outrage that resulted from that.
Times haven't changed too much, that's for sure.
EDIT:
@Lord Garth you forgot a lot of what was wrong with TWOK, quite frankly
You mentioned the uniforms being different, but it's worse than that...they are highly militaristic, and that's not Star Trekky
Speaking of militaristic, what's up with all the military culture in this film? "Admiral on the bridge" and such....again, no respect for what makes Star Trek so great and so special or what Gene Roddenberry intended. Heck, the civilians in the film even refer to Starfleet as "the military." Absolute garbage.
You mention David Marcus...but you didn't mention the greatest offense, which is the outright kick in the teeth to the fans that we wouldn't know at this point that Kirk has a son. I mean, it's absolutely insane of these writers to just have a close family member appear out of nowhere that we have never heard of. What a joke.
It's grimdark too. Since when is Star Trek about revenge, old age, mid-life crisis, death, murder, rage, life regrets and mistakes, body horror, etc??? It's NOT! Star Trek is fun and uplifting and this is absolutely the opposite of that. Its miserable and mean-spirited at nearly every turn. I'm going to go watch The Orville and Lower Decks just to shower myself of this ick I feel.
It depicts the Federation and Starfleet in a non-utopian way, to the point where civilian scientists are convinced that Starfleet is evil enough to commandeer their work for use as a genocidal weapon of mass-destruction. This is not the Starfleet that we know, and I can't fathom why Federation citizens would feel this way...living in their utopia and thinking these things about their noble and honorable Starfleet.
Don't even talk to me about the lazy, hacky writing that takes place in this so-called "film."
More examples of how Nick Meyer and Harve Bennett don't care about Star Trek:
-Self-indulgent literary references and quotes do not automatically make something smart and literate.
-They couldn't be bothered with science apparently, with the magic teraforming torpedo (that is fine-tuned to work on a lifeless planet, but apparently also SOMEHOW works on nebula gas). Forget the insanity that the Reliant just happens to detonate the device right in the goldilocks zone of a nearby star???
-Speaking of science...exploding planets. Just saying.
-The Reliant, nor Chekov, has any recollection of why the Ceti Alpha star system might be significant until they see the inscribed buckle?? Nope....stupid contrived writing that makes the characters look stupid...becuase that's what the entire plot hinges on. Lazy lazy lazy.
-Think about this debacle: Enterprise is 12 hours and 43 min away from Regula One (at Warp 5) when Kirk calls for a meeting in his cabin...they talk for 5 to 7 min...and then apparently drop out of warp to get shot to bits by the Reliant. They have nothing but half-assed banged-up impulse power after the attack, and yet are somehow able to arrive at Regula 1 shortly thereafter??? C'mon kids....who writes this stuff?? And how can anyone just watch this and think this is ok? The fans who like this film will like anything with "Star Trek" in the title.
-Scotty brings a mortally wounded crewmember to the bridge following the battle. Not sickbay....THE BRIDGE. This is cheap...the writers and director trying to manipulate the audience into an UNEARNED EMOTIONAL REACTION regarding a character we don't know much about and don't care much about. But, I guess I'm supposed to cry because bad writing. Oh well....movie is garbage anyway.
- Phasers shooting Star Wars bolts...since when???
-How does Spock get from the Bridge all the way to main engineering, with a TON of time to spare, when David "the son nobody knew about" Marcus said that the device activates in 4 min??? I mean, the turbolifts are inoperative below C-deck....so Spock is literally moving down about 14 decks and then needs time to get past McCoy and repair the warp engines. I don't know about you guys....but I'd love to see the deck plans of how close Engineering must be to the bridge in order for that to happen. But oh yeah....the writers and producers don't care about Star Trek....I forgot LOL
Anyway, I thought I'd point out how much you missed about this "Star Trek in name only" film. I'd give it a 3/10, but too many other people rate it ridiculously high, so 0/10 just to normalize the ratings.
Last edited:
What a rewarding thing to have spent your free time doing!
As somebody who has nearly a quarter of a million posts on The TrekBBS I know a thing or two about spending my free time well.
Yeah, I don't really think I'm in a good position to comment on time well spentAs somebody who has nearly a quarter of a million posts on The TrekBBS I know a thing or two about spending my free time well.
"I have control over my life and don't waste every day doing trivial things!"
[*Looks at my post count*]
[*Looks at my post count*]
I am old enough to have used Usenet (ah, those pre Web internet days). I defended TNG but it was skewered by many online fans,
I limit myself to 10 items where I can get the most entertainment value out of it. Got to keep it funny, relatively short, and a little bit over-the-top. With some outdated social values to boot.
And I keep the attitude of Modern Trekkies, but stick to the time of when these things came out, so I can work in some of that '60s, '70s, or '80s flavor.
But, yeah. My God. TWOK was the worst! The worst! It's not Star Trek! I'm gonna have to watch some Orville to clean out my mind... wait a minute...
Last edited:
What a rewarding thing to have spent your free time doing!
Actually, it's quite cathartic....and it's also reassuring.
I find myself getting sucked into fan negativity, even to the point where I start to question my own opinions and "likes." It's like..."wow, everyone else sure is angry and miserable. Maybe it's wrong that I don't feel that way too. Maybe I'm missing something I should be outraged about...."
But then you start picking apart Star Trek movies or episodes that everyone universally praises, and you realize that it's all flawed and broken, and that the people bitching are essentially full of shit and picking their spots.
So yeah, it makes me feel great. Thank you.
I limit myself to 10 items that I can get the most entertainment value out of it. Got to keep it funny, relatively short, and a little bit over-the-top. With some outdated social values to boot.
And I keep the attitude of Modern Trekkies, but stick the time of when these things came out, so I work in some of that '60s, '70s, or '80s flavor.
But, yeah. My God. TWOK was the worst! The worst! It's not Star Trek! I'm gonna have to watch some Orville to clean out my mind... wait a minute...
Sorry, I didn't limit my post to 10 items. When I'm outraged about something as important and serious as Star Trek.....
....I'M REALLY OUTRAGED
And I need to type about it over and over and over and over again. You know....just incase someone misses my point the first time.
Same here and I find talking it out on discussion boards usually brings me back around. It's a nice exercise in to what I genuinely enjoy about Star Trek shows, which is usually the characters and the story. When I see the hyper detailed oriented posts I just have to smile because it isn't for me. I love a tech manual as much as the next crewmember (as long as it isn't Scotty) but I couldn't fathom sitting and watching an episode with my Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise flipped open searching for how tech is presented. More power to those who do.
Same here and I find talking it out on discussion boards usually brings me back around. It's a nice exercise in to what I genuinely enjoy about Star Trek shows, which is usually the characters and the story. When I see the hyper detailed oriented posts I just have to smile because it isn't for me. I love a tech manual as much as the next crewmember (as long as it isn't Scotty) but I couldn't fathom sitting and watching an episode with my Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise flipped open searching for how tech is presented. More power to those who do.
Yeah, it's just different strokes I guess.
I've never bought into the "Trek is a realistic, possible world" appeal as my main reason for watching the show (if I did, I sure as hell wouldn’t like TWOK, see post above). Nor have I ever cared about philosophy, messaging, utopia, or anything even remotely of the sort. I couldn't give less a care about Star Trek's "philosophy."
I like fun adventures in outerspace aboard starships. With some phasers, Klingons, transporters and maybe the Prime Directive or some other plot device that makes stories interesting. Cool sets, colorful characters, whacky aliens.
I don't care about how many decks are on the Enterprise E or how big the shuttlebay is supposed to be or what the display screen said in episode 26 vs. what the contrary dialogue says in episode 47.
It's just never mattered AT ALL to me. Maybe that's why I find it so much easier to love most of the franchise without being pissed off.
Last edited:
Same, though I came along in the last days of Usenet as a viable discussion forum. Even then, actual discussions were dying out and it was becoming a platform for piracy and “adult entertainment”.
Imagine that on the old shows! XD
"Intruder Alert!" - "Computer, beam them all back." - "Transport completed." - "I'll be in my ready room."
That should really appear in S4 XD
*Jump to enemy ship* - "WAAAAH!" - *Jump back home* - *Enemy ship explodes*
It really should have behaved like the typical 24th century computer, always asking for clarifications XD
There is no greater honor for a Klingon than to die in battle
The tech doesn't matter to me at all. Honestly, consistency doesn't matter either, as long as it's internally consistent enough it doesn't break immersion.
But for me, Trek - like all SF settings - is a place we can use allegory to explore the human condition. Or use out-there technologies which can't actually exist to explore consequences we can conceive of, but aren't quite reality yet.
But for me, Trek - like all SF settings - is a place we can use allegory to explore the human condition. Or use out-there technologies which can't actually exist to explore consequences we can conceive of, but aren't quite reality yet.
I appreciate this thought because I find myself running into the same issues. I tend to nitpick a lot of newer Trek even though I enjoy it, and I go between “am I being too hard on it?” and “am I going too EASY on it because I want to like it?” all the time.
A lot of the hate I see online doesn’t help, but the other day I was up to “A Call to Arms” on my millionth DS9 rewatch, and I decided to consciously watch it like I would a new Discovery episode, and WOW was I nitpicking the crap out of it, especially the last fifteen minutes or so when the station and the Defiant are under attack.
So for now I’ve kind of settled on, “wow, Discovery is good but has some REALLY questionable writing decisions. Is it better or worse in that regard than other Trek? I think only time will tell.” Because right now older Trek has the virtue of a ton of nostalgia and the fact that most of us have seen each and every episode SO many times, we’ve just accepted the warts that every series has and moved on.
Both things are quite doable even with *today’s* technology, so I don’t see the problem.
even much easier (and much more convenient), just delay the broadcast until the recipient is called. Only them get to hear the call and it isn’t going to make much difference.
Now, what really bugged me was Worf saying the other ship was not answering way too soon...just yesterday I was watching Conundrum ad the conversation was like
Picard: hail them:
Worf (immediately): no answer.
WTF Worf?
But ok, drama and now wasting screen time...
that killing unnecessarily isn’t right?
well, it surely used to be. that was one of the main reasons it stood up for many, myself included.
honestly, this doesn’t happening is oddly convenient many times between late TNG and VOY.
been quite a while since that used to happen...
For TOS and TNG, I was planning to pick specific episodes that I could get some mileage out of, but maybe I should move up my cut-off and include DS9 too. It's weird for me, because DS9 was a current series when I was first online, but I guess time marches on. It's "retro"/"nostalgic" now. The "glory days" to quote Jammer.
