Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x13 - "That Hope Is You, Part 2"

[Muji]

Ok, then please explain what the plot was?

Before I spend time doing that, I want to confirm that you're saying there's no plot? None, zero, plot-less? I generally skip over your posts, so I don't know what you've said previously.

What was there that wasn’t basically a droning conclusion of the previous two episodes?

What is it about there being a conclusion to a story arc - droning or otherwise - that would negate it from having a plot?

 

[Roald]

I'm kinda hoping the season 4 will be more episodic, about the Discovery being a dilithium supply ship visiting a new planet each week... They can visit some familiar planets like Kronos, Tellar... with an interesting twist in every episode... The overarching story could be about Earth rejoining the Federation..!

 

[dupersuper]

LD: “Temporal Edict” showed at the end that at some point in the far future a child Borg drone in in a class. Perhaps Borg changed to be peaceful at some point?

That fits with Star Trek Online: There's a Borg at the signing of the temporal accords on the 28th century.

Well, according to DS9 turbolifts can go into a freefall in what looks like a rigid turboshaft. The description changes constantly from episode to episode as for so many things star trek. It's a perpetual retcon of technology.

Or Cardassian space stations just have different (and far more sensible) turbo lift designs.

I mean how could you possibly be aware in a transporter beam if you're reduced to patterns? That doesn't make any sense.

Ask Barclay?

*sings* How do we solve a problem like Picard?

New writers? Less horrible Federation? Letting Patrick Stewart know that we all already know that brexit sucks?

That puts her at about the same level as ensign Mayweather in Enterprise.

Not a fan of Horizon?

I think he finally understood that it was all for the greater good.

That's not the vibe I got from his look to her at the end.

She doesn't have to be from a Federation world to join Starfleet.

True: I wonder if Saru or Bernham wrote their letter of recommendation.

The magic holodeck bugs me a little. I don't have any big problem with mechanically reading minds, but if that holodeck could do it, then any holodeck should be able to do it.

In the 32nd century maybe they can. Every holodeck visit is like the episode Shore Leave. Oh, the pornabilities...

 

[ScottJ85]

O2 was cut to all decks below 5 so either that giant turbolift city is all in the top few decks or the writers cant even remember their own scripts

Or the turbolift network is pressurised separately, and Osiraa left them alone so the Regulators could still use them.

 

[alex08060]

10/10 !!!

 

[Timo]

Or the turbolift network is pressurised separately, and Osiraa left them alone so the Regulators could still use them.

The regulators had helmets. If their functionality is even fraction above that of Stormtroopers (and it's difficult to see how the reverse could be true!), then they wouldn't need oxygen.

And Burnham, Booker and Zareh are main characters, for the purposes of the fight anyway. They breathe between adventures. (Heck, Burnham saves hers in advance by only whispering.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Roald]

Or the turbolift network is pressurised separately, and Osiraa left them alone so the Regulators could still use them.

Correct! We've had to make these kind of things up a zillion times in TOS-ENT without putting blame on 'stupid writers'...

 

[jackoverfull]

Before I spent time doing that, I want to confirm that you're saying there's no plot? None, zero, plot-less?

i think what I wrote was “the episode struggles by a lack of plot”, which is different from saying that there is “zero” plot. Let’s say that once you take out the action and the repetition you get the ending bits and very little else.

Now...can you answer my questions, since I answered yours?

I generally skip over your posts, so I don't know what you've said previously.

Too bad...If I bother you that much you might want to use the ignore function.

What is it about there being a conclusion to a story arc - droning or otherwise - that would negate it from having a plot?

nothing...if there was something. As the episode felt to me I really think that this three parters would have worked better as a two parter, cutting on the pointless threads such as the bots and removing a lot of the overlong action.

And please, before labeling me as a “hater”, remember I gave a 9 to the last episode and generally positive votes to several in the season, which I found still quite an improvement from the last two years.

 

[eschaton]

I loved seeing Sahil return but it sucked he had little more than a glorified cameo.

At least he got to speak. Lots of characters appeared in the last montage (Reno, Nilsson, the president of Ni'Var, the head of Trill) who were just...there.

 

[thribs]

Those other Federation ships are pretty useless as they couldn’t even damage the Discovery. A 900 year old ship no less

 

[Timo]

I can see them holding back somewhat - Vance wouldn't want to lose that ship. But stopping the Discovery from hurting the shield generator should have been trivial enough. Just park three or four of the modern ships between her and the doodad. It's not as if the Discovery guns were having much impact on anything, either.

Maybe that's how it is in the future: death rays have improved a bit, but shields have gotten so much better that it's back to the 16th century where two ships could fire at each other for hours if not days at an end at shouting range, and the shouting would hurt more?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Discofan]

Those other Federation ships are pretty useless as they couldn’t even damage the Discovery. A 900 year old ship no less

That's old technology, not these cheap plastic things that break the first time you use them...

 

[eschaton]

I think the episode had a pretty well-developed plot.

A plot: Burnham (and to a lesser extent Book, Owo, Tilly) defeat Osyraa and the Regulators, return to the Nebula
B plot: Saru convinces Su'Kal to turn off the simulation.

Where Discovery has always struggled more is where it comes to themes. They did exist in this episode, but the writers had to sledgehammer it home with a Burnham monologue in the epilogue. Otherwise we never would have known the conclusions were were supposed to draw other than "the good guys won."

 

[Roald]

Where Discovery has always struggled more is where it comes to themes. They did exist in this episode, but the writers had to sledgehammer it home with a Burnham monologue in the epilogue. Otherwise we never would have known the conclusions were were supposed to draw other than "the good guys won."

Whaa...? There were LOTS of themes throughout the season, mainly that of the crew finding a place within this new time; acceptence, being relevant... We've had the theme of freedom vs. duty, the theme of what it means to be a captain.. all these themes culminated in this episode perfectly, and nothing was 'sledgehammered' imo....

 

[Muji]

think what I wrote was “the episode struggles by a lack of plot”, which is different from saying that there is “zero” plot. Let’s say that once you take out the action and the repetition you get the ending bits and very little else.

Now...can you answer my questions, since I answered yours?

You actually didn't answer my question. The reason I asked you to confirm whether or not your position is that there's no plot at all is because I'm not interested in defending statements I didn't make or arguing against people who don't hold contrary positions. If you think there's absolutely no plot, then sure I'll break down the plot points and spend time talking about the multi-episode story. If you think there was some plot, no matter how thin, then we agree there was a plot and there's no real point in me wasting time.

Too bad...If I bother you that much you might want to use the ignore function.

You don't bother me, you just don't interest me very much. I didn't reply to you, you replied to me in an indignant fashion asking me to show what the plot was. I said in the original post I've got no problem people hating the plot.

nothing

Okay, good. I'll ignore that bit then.

And please, before labeling me as a “hater”, remember I gave a 9 to the last episode and generally positive votes to several in the season, which I found still quite an improvement from the last two years.

I'm not sure who you're quoting there, but I've not labelled you a hater and I have no intention of doing so. You replied to me, I wasn't chasing you down for anything. You can hate it or love it all you want.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Or the turbolift network is pressurised separately, and Osiraa left them alone so the Regulators could still use them.

A very very flimsy reason

 

[eschaton]

Whaa...? There were LOTS of themes throughout the season, mainly that of the crew finding a place within this new time; acceptence, being relevant... We've had the theme of freedom vs. duty, the theme of what it means to be a captain.. all these themes culminated in this episode perfectly, and nothing was 'sledgehammered' imo....

I specifically said this episode. Not the entire season. Because if you cut off the epilogue, those themes would have easily been lost in the mix. Particularly with the A plot of the episode, which was nuance-free action.

 

[Roald]

Those other Federation ships are pretty useless as they couldn’t even damage the Discovery. A 900 year old ship no less

First, The Discovery had received so many upgrades, it's not the same ship anymore... Second, due to ramifications of the Burn, the other ships were not necessarily stronger or more powerful, just like a Roman soldier would probably not be automatically beat by a knight from the Dark Ages 1000+ more advanced... In fact, my bets would be on the Roman.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Yes, because I thought it was a very good episode.
It's impossible to objectively talk about any form of art, but I do feel this episode was lightyears ahead of 'the worst of the worst imaginable'.... and deep down, I think even the haters giving 1's know this....

So its wrong to think this was up there with the worst Trek but absolutely fine to think its one of the best episodes ever.

I gave it a 1 and I often rate DIS harsh because I come on here after watching a mediocre episode to find 10s everywhers so I see it as a counterbalance to the DIS can do no wrong people

 

[Roald]

I specifically said this episode. Not the entire season. Because if you cut off the epilogue, those themes would have easily been lost in the mix. Particularly with the A plot of the episode, which was nuance-free action.

Maybe with the way the season is structured, these episodes are not meant to be 'cut off' and it's unfair to judge them as such?