Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x13 - "That Hope Is You, Part 2"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Jan 6, 2021.

?

Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    23.6%
  2. 9

    16.7%
  3. 8

    19.0%
  4. 7

    12.0%
  5. 6

    6.6%
  6. 5

    5.0%
  7. 4

    1.9%
  8. 3

    3.5%
  9. 2

    2.3%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    9.3%
  1. TimeIsAPredator

    TimeIsAPredator Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2020
    Good one. Write a post and put a meme up about how "not even worth" engaging with me.

    Most people don't read all of the comments and just look at the average so I like the average to be as accurate as possible. It's not a big deal really you are right about that it's just a rating on a fun forum rating
     
  2. NX_01

    NX_01 Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    That mysterious melody that occured everywhere, was that explained? I feel like I missed something.
     
  3. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Location:
    Australia
    How could an average reflecting subjective opinions rated on a subjective scale be in any way "accurate"?

    What you mean is that you want the average closer to your own opinion, and that you're deliberately choosing the lowest possible score to manipulate it in that direction.
     
    JoeP and Vger23 like this.
  4. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Sure. But some makes more sense than others. A child screaming triggering a subspace something because DNA and lots of nearby dilithium doesn't work for me. I also think it avoids some more interesting issues.

    It was basically a child who did it by accident. Solution: Connect with the child. Ok, while that makes sense, it seems a bit straightforward. They could've gone the route of it being something like the Federation and other groups continuing business as usual, which degraded space over time. They had hints about that early on, with environmental messages and even a warning about wormholes ruining sections of space.

    Again, YMMV, and clearly it works for you. Different strokes. I'm glad you and others liked it. I'm not trying to detract from anyone's enjoyment. Just not my cup of tea.
     
    jackoverfull likes this.
  5. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Location:
    Australia
    I don't think it was ever explicitly explained, which seems like an omission. I took it that it was a Kelpian lullaby which was transmitted along with the Burn.
     
    jackoverfull likes this.
  6. Ensign Mas

    Ensign Mas Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2017
    I rate this piece of garbage "1". Discovery (or Star Trek: Saint Michael) has been a consistently poor show with bad writing by soap opera writers, but this season finale really took the cake. The burn was due to genetic changes, the layout of the Discovery is pure stupidity (it has been shown before that the ship is huge hollow space, but now there aren't even turboshafts, but travels through gigantic empty areas which is inconsistent with everything shown before and which would make the Discovery huge. It's brainfart).

    People may like the show and that's fine with me, people have a difference in opinion, but I do hope that the Star Trek franchise will find more capable hands just like the Star Wars franchise did with Favreau and Filoni.
     
    trekshark and jackoverfull like this.
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Annoyed by inappropriate use of the word "Need"
    So, fan service
    ?
     
  8. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    That's not unique to Burnham. We have a show that's literally called Star Trek: Picard and while it doesn't say Saint Picard (spoilers if for some reason you haven't watched Picard yet)
    Picard literally dies for the sins of the Federation and is miraculously resurrected. That was way, way, way more 10x on the nose to deifying Picard than anything Discovery has remotely done with Burnham.
    And that's not even getting into Cadet to Captain Kelvin Timeline Kirk.
     
  9. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Location:
    The Black Country, England
    A really great start to the season, a very decent middle, but the end ?

    Sadly anticlimactic and ill judged. Not actually bad, but unremittingly...average.

    5/10
     
    jackoverfull likes this.
  10. Muji

    Muji Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2020
    Interesting. I felt the opposite. I feel the middle was borderline unwatchable for my tastes, but the final five episodes were good. Finally back to the better stuff of seasons 1 and 2.
     
    Vger23 likes this.
  11. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Location:
    Quincy, MA
    I buy into the explanation for The Burn. We always assume, today, that if the end comes, it will probably be because of a war, or a plague, or something man-made. The Burn's cause was, to them, the undetected comet that comes out of nowhere and causes an extinction-level event one Tuesday afternoon. It's the unknowable, unplanned, left-field unpredictable event that throws everything hard left. That the Federation could be devastated by something like that, something it's great minds and science and fleets couldn't force or prevent, that makes it the more interesting cause. Asimov would have loved it!
     
  12. Ensign Mas

    Ensign Mas Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2017
    Yes, I watched Picard and I agree.
     
  13. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Sure, it could be a black swan event as you describe. Ultimately, that is what caused the Burn. However, the problem isn't just that it's an unpredictable event, but that this particular cause involves a very superficial and obvious solution. Calm the child down!

    Imagine if it had involved more complex issues such as resource scarcity, ignoring a growing problem, group think in the Federation, or whatever. There were hints of something more complex at the beginning of the season but that wasn't the end result. I was hoping for something a bit more complex and meaningful than calming a child down.

    Regardless of the believability of the cause, my real issue is that it was dramatically unsatisfying to me. It avoided deeper issues.

    YMMV. I'm sure it depends on what we're looking for in an episode.
     
  14. Muji

    Muji Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2020
    Calm the child down from seeing his mother dying in front of his eyes? I'm very much in the 'you first' camp on that one. Also, wasn't he alone at that point?
     
  15. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Given the events of the story, I can certainly understand him being upset! My objection is not that, but rather that it was an upset child (understandably so) that caused the burn and that the solution was to calm him down. While coming him down makes sense given the context, for me, it's not a satisfying resolution to a season long mystery.

    In other words, the events of the plot are logical. The solution fits the problem as presented. However, I didn't find it at all compelling.
     
    jackoverfull likes this.
  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Annoyed by inappropriate use of the word "Need"
    That the heroes are going to save the day?

    When did that become a bad thing? :shrug::shrug::shrug::brickwall:

    I am hoping Season 4 allows for that exploration.

    However, and my bias will show greatly here, knowing the full metal impact that can happen with children struggling with trauma I think that work is just as meaningful as any other commentary. Mostly because people don't think kids can suffer that much with trauma and should just "get over it" and talk it out like adults. There's more to healing than just calming a child down.
     
    antinoos and saladdays like this.
  17. Muji

    Muji Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2020
    I think there was great promise with The Burn. I was instantly interested, but I also didn't find the reasoning compelling. That said, He was alone and... yeah, it's whatever. I did think it was a visual spectacle though. Wow, some of the scenes were absolutely amazing.
     
    Mr Awe likes this.
  18. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    I can certainly respect that as a reason for appreciating the episode! And the episode made it clear that Saru was going to be busy with the long-term healing. The child's story wasn't done by any means.

    It just wasn't my cup of tea but I'm glad it worked for you! :)
     
  19. anh165

    anh165 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    I have to say, with exception of Terra Firma Pt 1 & 2 , IMO S3 has been a big let down.

    The final episode for me had to be one of the most simultaneously boring and frustrating episodes of any Trek I have ever seen. Pew pew pew, AI, a token two-dimensional villian, pew pew pew, many periods of long drawn out Die Hard style action spliced between the long drawn out ‘bonding’ scenes between Saru and Su’kal, Burnham once AGAIN saving everyone from a situation that she escalated, and the answer to the biggest mystery behind ‘The Burn-ham’ that wiped out the Federation was on the account of some Kelpian child crying - in full B-movie melodrama fashion.

    Am I looking forward to the next season?? I don’t know now!
     
    jackoverfull likes this.
  20. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    Realistically there's no way Su'kal will ever live the rest of his life in peace. It's like the Hulk from Marvel: "You won't like me when I'm angry" kind of thing. That's why Hulk always has a bunch of military and scientists chasing him around.

    By the very galactic nature of the event, somehow at some point word's going to get out that a Kelpien man Su'kal has the power to destroy dilithium. Taking him away from the dilithium planet only delays the issue. Everyone's going to be looking to study him and weaponize him. The Borg can just assimilate him and grant his powers to the collective. The Klingons (the same people who immediately saw the Genesis Project and tried to weaponize it) can kidnap him, put him in the dilithium mines of Rura Penthe, and force him to cause more chaos on their behalf. People will be looking to clone him, study him, etc.

    Sooner or later word will get out, and nothing Saru or Vance or Starfleet can do will keep Su'kal safe forever from a dangerous galaxy of villains looking to exploit him.

    On that same note, the people of Kwejian are going to have a lot of problems in their near future as well, now that it's known they can navigate the mycelial network.
     
    Fateor likes this.