I’m afraid you’re right. If Jason Isaacs was in it, they’d definitely have put a glimpse of him in the trailer. The powers that be value holding back on spoilers, but they value viewership and a pre-show buzz even more.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x09 - "Terra Firma, Part 1"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I’m afraid you’re right. If Jason Isaacs was in it, they’d definitely have put a glimpse of him in the trailer. The powers that be value holding back on spoilers, but they value viewership and a pre-show buzz even more.
I don’t know. Maybe they want it to be a surprise
Maybe there are some complex temporal mechanics in play, like possibly if it's a change happening in the main timeline or if a new sideways timeline / alternate universe is being created and the distance between the universes.
Maybe it's similar to what @Christopher depicted in his DTI Novels.
If it were me, I'd be trolling those viewers.
I'd have Lorca pop in really quick for part of one scene. Have him say he'll right back, then have him pop out. Never to be seen again for the rest of the episode.
Them: "What? We wanted to see Lorca!"
Me: "Welp, you did!"
Them: "Not like that! You know what I meant!"
Me: "Yeah, well, you said you don't want to see the Mirror Universe again. I've got it out of my system. So who am I to argue with you?"
Them: "We want to see Lorca!"
Me: "Well, that means the Mirror Universe."
Them: "I don't care! We want to see Lorca!"
Me: "Okay, If you say so..."
One year later
Them: "They're doing the Mirror Universe again?!"
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No matter what this will be the complaint.
Apparently the Mirror Universe is just not it...except when ENT does it in which case it is a loving tribute to the franchise. Yeah, that makes sense...
To be fair to this day I think all the DS9 Mirror Universe episodes sucked hard.
I liked TOS S2 - "Mirror, Mirror".
I liked ENT's S4 - "In A Mirror Darkly I & II"
And I've enjoyed all of ST: D's episodes in the mirror universe to date.
YMMV.
This episode was boring until they got into the mirror universe. The cast acting as their mirror universe characters are so much better. Sonequa Martin-Green Mirror Burnham was great No weepy weepy touchy feely stuff that consumes other episodes. Real interesting to see Georgiou return to her Universe and not quite fit in.
But what actually is this? a Dream? Some wacky Alice in wonderland thing lacking any science?
But what actually is this? a Dream? Some wacky Alice in wonderland thing lacking any science?
I hope it doesn't turn out to be a dream sequence.
The beginning of the episode cites the one canon, unequivocal creation of a separate timeline that occured in Star Trek.
This may mean that Georgiou creates another mirror universe. We one we've seen in S1 remains, also keeping Prime history intact (as Kovich learned it), while also taking the mirror universe to a new ground where the Empire may or may not fall.
The beginning of the episode cites the one canon, unequivocal creation of a separate timeline that occured in Star Trek.
This may mean that Georgiou creates another mirror universe. We one we've seen in S1 remains, also keeping Prime history intact (as Kovich learned it), while also taking the mirror universe to a new ground where the Empire may or may not fall.
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I think that’s exactly what happened. Before Georgiou stayed her sword sparing Burnham, she already killed Stamets in the assassination attempt, and he should have survived beyond that to meet Prime Stamets in the Mycelial Network, long after both Discoveries were commissioned. We’re definitely in an alternate MU, so far as I can tell.
Yeah, Mirror, Mirror and the Enterprise 2-parter were the high points. But I think the first 2 mirror universe episodes of DS9 were fine. And the 3rd has maybe the coolest fight scene using the Defiant.
But beyond that yeah, the DS9 entries got progressively worse. Especially the last one in S7 where it was just an excuse to have a mirror Ezri.
I haven’t been the biggest fan of the Disco Mirror stuff. But I did enjoy this most recent entry.
Everyone loves spectacle, even evil maniacs
My reaction/review of "In the Mirror, Darkly", that I posted a few years ago. I'll cut-and-paste it in here too.
Part I
Intermission
Part II
I have yet to look back at the DS9 episodes. Though I revisit "Mirror, Mirror" (TOS) every so often. I used to watch it every Halloween for a while.
DSC's take on the Mirror Universe is my favorite take. And it makes sense to see the Mirror Universe again when a regular character is actually from there. And looking at their life in the past. Which, like it or not, includes the Mirror Universe.
"Terra Firma" is pretty clearly about Georgiou discovering how much she's changed since she left the Mirror Universe. While also giving deeper background into what the situation was like over there before she made her first appearance in the series.
Part I
Shifting gears. I'm watching ENT's "In the Mirror Darkly". Nothing really that wrong with it, but I still like the DSC episodes better.
I don't know. Everything seems so matter-of-fact and by the numbers in "In the Mirror Darkly" so far. The twist on the end of FC is nice. But then we have Phlox doing torture. Sato and Forrest having some sort of relationship. Then Archer moves against Forrest, takes command, and now they're heading for the Defiant. Whatever Archer's got in mind, he's planned it out. But it all seems "check, check, check!" I like Mayweather's look. And Trip's.
Even in darkness, the NX-01's interiors seem brightly lit in the foreground. They should've gone for total darkness.
If this were DSC, there would've been a lot more build-up and what we got here would've been at the end of the episode instead of 10 minutes in. Just a comparison between how the two series are. DSC wants to build things up. ENT treats the build-up as set-up. It's less about the tension and more about getting where they need to be.
Scott Bakula's acting. He's okay as Prime Archer. I'm not quite sure what he's going for as Mirror Archer. Something seems off. Like Scott Bakula was afraid of making Archer look like Dr. Evil so he reigned it in by going a little too far. Mirror Archer seems a little too measured. He should seem more threatening and intimidating. I'm not getting that sense at all when he's talking to T'Pol.
Now Archer's making out with Sato. Say all you want about Burnham and Tyler but at least I feel tension between them. At least I feel emotion. Same with Stamets and Culber. But this? Sato: "I'm yours now!" Archer: "Let's kiss!" That easy? Sato should play hard to get. Or at least there should be some raw intensity. Like Archer is super pent-up and needs release. I'm getting no sense of that. It's just, "Hey, let's make out." Even Sato pulling out the knife feels too clinical. And Archer's, "Let's keep our relationship on a professional level" feels too neatly pat, on top of being saved by the bell.
So we get to the Tholians... I do like the Tholian! But I'm just not buying the NX-01 crew as evil. The Mirror Shenzou crew felt evil. The Charon felt evil. The NX-01? Not so much. It feels like acting. Ugh. You can tell this was made in the '00s. "Torture works" was the motto of Dick Cheney and the Bush Administration. If this were made today, the Tholian never would've cooperated no matter how much Archer tortured it.
Why didn't Archer kill Forrest from the get-go? Advancement through assassination isn't just a means for advancement, it's bad-ass and you get to show much of a bad-ass you are. Archer is way too restrained. It's like all he has is some chip on his shoulder and he likes to whisper...
Forrest: "Kill me and she'll never forgive you!" Meaning Hoshi. And Archer lets him live. What the fuck?! Really?! Really?!?!! Come on! He's too soft to be a Terran. Forrest has the killer look in his eye. This isn't the Prime Universe. It's the Mirror Universe. Archer deserves to be taken down if Forrest gets out.
The torture scene with Trip was beyond lame. And then we cut to Hoshi in bed with Archer saying "It hasn't been that good in a long time." Ummmm... even if you don't want to show anything, in TOS, they had an episode called "Bread and Circuses" that shows Kirk in bed with a woman. It implies everything, shows nothing, and still works like a charm. What they show in "In the Mirror Darkly" has no charm at all. Please stop whispering, Archer.
Nice touch how, like in TOS, in ENT the ship's computer has a male voice in the Mirror Universe.
Forrest's escape with T'Pol busting him out. Phaser fight in the corridor! Archer, wimp that he is, runs off. Cut to the bridge. Yeah. I like the uniforms in the Disco Mirror Universe waaaaaaaaaay better. It's not even close.
Forrest is on the bridge and back in command. It's bad I'm cheering that Forrest is in command. I don't think he's who I'm supposed to be rooting for.
Archer reaches the bridge. And I think I've finally figured out who he's trying to sound like! Snake Plissken! "Call me Snake!"
I'm just noticing that the guy who plays Admiral Forrest looks like he should be on MacGuyver. The one from the '80s. I don't know why. He has that type of a look.
The torture chamber in ENT looks way too bland. The one in DSC at least looks like Spencer's at the mall. And that compliments the DSC Mirror Uniforms since they look like they're from Hot Topic. That's fun. Cool Trivia, though. Reed invented the torture chamber. I guess it makes sense then why the one in ENT has no style. Reed strikes me as being way too utilitarian and to-the-point.
Starfleet wants Forrest to proceed to Archer's destination. Instead of slamming him to the ground, Forrest should've punched him in the face.
A briefing room scene in a Mirror Universe episode just feels wrong. If this were DSC, everything Archer is summing up here would've been shown in an episode right before this one.
Why would T'Pol tell Trip what she did to him? It makes no logical sense to admit to manipulating someone. It would've been better -- and more dramatic -- if Trip were suspicious and he had to figure it out. But T'Pol's like, "Nope. This is what I did!" Way to kill drama, way to kill tension. Worse is that the scene is started off with T'Pol reporting something to Trip. This is Berman-Era Trek through and through, with everything I don't like about it in one scene. Along with the briefing room scene. It's reminding me of exactly what I don't like about this style of Star Trek.
Now the NX-01 is cloaking... and it's about to reach its destination, which is... Saturn?!
Wait, no. It's not Saturn. It just looks like it. It's the Enterprise! Umm, I mean: the Defiant!
Now to see how the TOS look holds up in the 21st Century. Even though it's 2005 and still the Bush Era. The post-9/11, pre-Katrina Bush Era no less. Not to mention Social Media and Web 2.0 are in their infancy. But it's still the 21st Century.
Okay. The TOS Constitution Class looks other-timely in ENT but it works because the ship is from 100 years in the future. So it should look other-timely. In DSC, you can't get away with a Constitution Class Starship looking other-timely because it's supposed to be the same era. So either DSC had to look like TOS or TOS had to look like DSC. Discovery went with the latter.
Now they're back in the Briefing Room. Talking about the Defiant. And Trip's whispering too. Archer finally gets the killer look when he clearly has no intention of destroying the Defiant when Forrest orders him to. How could Forrest not see this? Is he really that dumb? Apparently. He should've killed Archer for insubordination. But, anyway...
Okay. So the landing party is on the Defiant. Wait a minute. This is Berman Trek. So the away team is on the Defiant... and I have to say the darkened TOS sets work. The uniforms, on the other hand, don't.
Sorry to see the Tholian die. I would've liked to have seen it escape. Even though it wouldn't have been able to survive in normal temperature. It probably would've frozen to death. I guess it wasn't long for this episode.
And they're on the Defiant's bridge! Darkened sets or not, I can't see this being the main setting of a Star Trek series made Today. For these two episodes, it's okay. But for something permanent, like it would've been on Discovery? I don't think it would've worked.
What does work is that Tholian Web! Love it.
The music gets good as the NX-01 tries to attack The Tholian Web. Shit's about to Get Real.
I'm not going to lie. Even though I don't think it would work for Discovery, I love seeing a TOS-style Constitution Class bridge with high production values in action here. This is cool.
The music gets good again, we have a Constitution Class ship, sparks are flying on the NX-01, and we've got a Tholian Web... then Forrest has to ruin it with, "Can you vent the anti-matter?" Arrgh!!!! You're spoiling the mood, Captain.
Vaughn Armstrong's acting is a little shaky when he orders the NX-01 crew to abandon ship.
As the surviving NX-01 crew watches their ship destroyed from afar, aboard the Defiant, To Be Continued flashes across the screen.
Overall, I'm going to have to give "In the Mirror Darkly, Part I" a 6 out of 10. It was "okay" but too many things that I highlight above keep me from calling it "good". This was the first time I'd watched an episode of Enterprise in almost eight years.
Intermission
Part II
Continuing on with "Into the Mirror Darkly, Part II".
The main big draw here is watching the crew on a TOS Constitution Class bridge. And that they're in a Tholian Web. The bridge looks super colorful too. I like it. Great intro music.
Back to the episode. Now they're laying on the music really thick. DOM! DOM-DOM!!! DOM!!!! The Defiant takes a hit. Everything looks great but Trip's scars look better in the dark. The Defiant's tactical systems come online and they destroy the Tholian Web! The battle ends, and title of the episode appears.
Now they're trying to figure out all they can about the Defiant, get everything on it up-and-running, and Archer's researching the history. Had this episode aired a year later, I could've seen it being the 40th Anniversary Episode. I still have problems with Scott Bakula's portrayal as Mirror Archer but continually mentioning it would be beating a dead horse.
So during the first act of this episode we're in the slower part of story, while the crew acclimates to the Defiant and goes about normal shipboard business. If this is supposed to be fun, there shouldn't be a lull. The only explanation I have -- other than the different production style and pacing of the Berman Era -- is that they want the audience to savor the TOS designs. What can I say? I'm used to Discovery where nothing lets up and they shift from one thing to the next, whether it's going from action to tension to drama to humor to something else. DSC never just sits there. On a positive note, I am enjoying looking at the sets.
Oh! Looks like I spoke too soon... some ensign climbs up a Jefferie's Tube in a scene that reminds me of First Contact. "Paul? Paaaauuul?!" And Ensign Nobody gets killed off. FC did it better.
Cut to the bridge. Everyone's in TOS Uniforms now. I don't know. Is this really the way some people want Discovery to look? Anyway, we'll agree to disagree. Moving on...
An interrogation scene. And there's a Gorn on the loose. Mirror Archer sure has an inferiority complex for someone who thinks the Federation is made up of fools, including his counterpart in the Prime Universe. He's starting to see things. I think he's getting loony.
Confession Time: I like TOS's "Arena" but I've never been too crazy about the Gorn. And the Gorn in "In the Mirror Darkly" reminds me of something I'd see in a cartoon I used to watch when I was kid called Thundercats, down to the voice. I could see this Gorn in Castle Plun-Darr or taking orders from Mumm-Ra the Ever Living.
Okay. It's official. Archer has his imaginary self talking to him. He's not getting loony. He is loony. Probably not as loony as late-DS9 Dukat, but we'll see.
Good Scene as the MACOs, headed by Reed, go searching for the Gorn. Good pacing, good music, good tension. And the Gorn moves in for the kill! Archer fights the Gorn! All Archer needs now is for his shirt to get ripped. Sucks that they use TECH, like enhancing the gravity to end the fight. Moving on...
Another slow scene. I like that Phlox and T'Pol are feasting on TOS Starburst Cubes while comparing notes about the two universes. Then that ends with a Red Alert.
The Defiant, with its 23rd Century technology, heads into battle. And makes short work of its enemies while impressing Starfleet at the same time. Archer's growing into Being Evil. He lets the last Andorian ship go because "I want the other rebels to know what happened here." He's channeling the Female Shapeshifter from DS9.
Finally! Archer kills someone above him! "You're relieved Admiral." Then he vaporizes him. That's what I'm talking about! Where the Hell was this guy last episode?
Archer rallies the troops. They're getting their groove on!
When T'Pol tries to get Soval to help her to make a move against Archer, she mentions that Archer would lay waste to Vulcan. That line takes on a new meaning with the 2009 film. Added to the fact that Archer seems crazy now since he's seeing things. So Mirror Archer's like Dukat, the Female Shapeshifter, and Nero!
Now we have a bedroom scene between Archer and Sato that actually works. I like the lighting. It's back-lit and all we see in the foreground are silhouettes of them. While they talk about getting rid of T'Pol. So now both sides are planning against each other. Plotting to kill each other. It seems like the writers have finally warmed up to what the Mirror Universe should be.
"I've never been the consort of an Emperor before..."
So now we cut to the bridge and we finally have some real tension. The shot focusing on T'Pol was very deliberate. She's escorted off the bridge and Archer's large, in charge, and in command. I kind of hope he blows up the Admiral who's yelling at him after he demands that Starfleet surrender to him. He's the villain as in The Villain. I'm rooting for T'Pol and everyone else to take him down. So a villain he is. Last episode I wasn't feeling it. This episode, I am.
Sato vs. T'Pol. I'm kind of surprised Sato's holding her own in this fight... Then she's blasted down. The fights in this series are too short. They need to be longer. This fight in particular probably should've lasted twice as long as it did.
Now Archer's interrogating T'Pol, who says, "You will not prevail."
Soval learned about the mechanics of the Defiant really fast. He's a pro, instructing Phlox. Oh, well. Once Phlox does what he's supposed to, Soval attacks the Defiant. Big Berman Trek Battle. Sparks fly everywhere. Trip finds and stops Phlox and undoes what Phlox did. Primary Systems on the Defiant come back online. This feels like Star Trek As Usual again... then Archer destroys Soval's ship.
Archer's feeling like a Manly Man and he's in bed with Sato. Some great shots. Feels sensual. They drink. In hoping to become the Emperor with the help of the Defiant, Archer says the Empire is loyal to the Emperor. "They don't care who the Emperor is." Archer laughs. Then it's clear he's been poisoned with the drink... and Sato is now Empress Sato!
Once this episode got going, it got going. With only occasional lapses. I give it an 8.
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Now I also want to say, I don't see how anyone who likes these episodes, especially Part II, doesn't like DSC's Mirror Episodes. Discovery does what Part II of this Enterprise episode did even better. Tonally, I could just jump right into the Disco Episodes from here.
I feel like dismissing the DSC Mirror Universe episodes so casually has less to do with the episodes themselves and more to do with what they think of the series in general. And no, the DSC episodes do not cover the same ground. They do more with the Mirror Universe and in their own way. Just like ENT dealt with the Mirror Universe in its own way.
I have yet to look back at the DS9 episodes. Though I revisit "Mirror, Mirror" (TOS) every so often. I used to watch it every Halloween for a while.
DSC's take on the Mirror Universe is my favorite take. And it makes sense to see the Mirror Universe again when a regular character is actually from there. And looking at their life in the past. Which, like it or not, includes the Mirror Universe.
"Terra Firma" is pretty clearly about Georgiou discovering how much she's changed since she left the Mirror Universe. While also giving deeper background into what the situation was like over there before she made her first appearance in the series.
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It could. The Doctors' Tardis is broken (stuck on the police box), but the entrance can be anything.
Also, Carl reminds me more of the Dream Lord ("Amy's Choice")
Door and frame seems an odd choice. Usually when you walk in a TARDIS, you wind up inside the TARDIS.
And Culber.
We went 900 years into the future, so that after 8 episodes the writers could run out of material and recycle the Mirror universe? Sigh. Plus Burnham as usual is everywhere, sucking the oxygen away from the rest of the cast. Picard never got this much attention and he was a better written, better acted character.
Sigh. Well at least Georgiou has become interesting. Michelle Yeoh did well in the episode.
Sigh. Well at least Georgiou has become interesting. Michelle Yeoh did well in the episode.
What the heck was that? I did not like it. Gave it a 5, my lowest rating for Discovery ever.
The series is going backwards now? Exploring what was already covered. Yeah, I get it. They're showing how Georgiou changed. It's going to be a convoluted path for her to get to a place where she is happily (relatively) serving S31 in the Prime Universe.
I really did not need to see more of the Empress in the Mirror Universe. Move on please.
Meanwhile, more delays on the Burn front. Spinning the wheels there.
Episode was an exercise in frustration. I had really been enjoying this season so far but in the past several episodes the wheels have really started falling off. It's a disjointed mess.
It's obvious that during the writing process, they retrofit the Sphere Data protecting the ship idea. They added in the standalone moment with Saru and the R and R thing just so they could point to that now and say yeah, our computer knows the answer. Deus ex Machina! But, it clearly wasn't not something originally baked into the season. They needed some way of getting the crew to the right place to save Georgiou and pulled that one out and retrofit it in (barely).
The bad news is more Mirror Universe next week. The good news is the ship in distress wasn't the Discovery.
The series is going backwards now? Exploring what was already covered. Yeah, I get it. They're showing how Georgiou changed. It's going to be a convoluted path for her to get to a place where she is happily (relatively) serving S31 in the Prime Universe.
I really did not need to see more of the Empress in the Mirror Universe. Move on please.
Meanwhile, more delays on the Burn front. Spinning the wheels there.
Episode was an exercise in frustration. I had really been enjoying this season so far but in the past several episodes the wheels have really started falling off. It's a disjointed mess.
It's obvious that during the writing process, they retrofit the Sphere Data protecting the ship idea. They added in the standalone moment with Saru and the R and R thing just so they could point to that now and say yeah, our computer knows the answer. Deus ex Machina! But, it clearly wasn't not something originally baked into the season. They needed some way of getting the crew to the right place to save Georgiou and pulled that one out and retrofit it in (barely).
The bad news is more Mirror Universe next week. The good news is the ship in distress wasn't the Discovery.
Subjugating entire planets, killing each other as a daily practice of ranking up, eating other sentient intelligent species, etc.
I’m aware of how barbaric some of Earth’s civilizations have been (Genghis Khan, Nazis, Roman political intrigue and some of the weird Mayan/Aztec practices all come to mind), but I think the Terran Empire takes the cake there.
You do realize TNG's second season episode "Time Squared" was TNG's 39th episode aired.
The current Star Trek Discovery episode we're discussing is Star Trek Discovery's 38th episode released.
I bring that up because I find it interesting that as Even though many fans love TNG - here we have someone claiming that 39 episodes in, The production team was still figuring out what TNG was, and it's lead was still figuring out to how to play the character of Picard.
Pardon me if I’m misinterpreting your tone, but are you dismissing or mocking my post here? I like Discovery and I don’t think I’m wrong about early TNG either.
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