Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x09 - "Terra Firma, Part 1"

[cultcross]

Does that include each time she "dies" in "Coda"? None of these deaths were real though.

Well as the character survives the series, none of deaths can be "real", but the question was about dying on screen. Trek characters do that a lot.

I also forgot that weird episode in Season 1 (or was it 2?) where Picard meets a copy of himself from the future.

Time Squared? Yeah, that one. Lonely Among Us, too, from early on, where Picard's body is destroyed and he's resurrected through some Transporter magic.

 

[Discofan]

Well as the character survives the series, none of deaths can be "real", but the question was about dying on screen. Trek characters do that a lot.
...

No, what I mean is that while the deaths of Picard in "Cause and effect" really happened (in some alternate timeline), the deaths of Janeway in "Coda" were just delusions created by the creature inside her mind and are no more real than a dream. I don't think we can count them.

 

[TheMadCloner]

Time Squared? Yeah, that one. Lonely Among Us, too, from early on, where Picard's body is destroyed and he's resurrected through some Transporter magic.

Yeah, Time Squared. Where Picard didn't act like Picard because Stewart was still trying to figure out how to portray him and where TNG didn't feel like TNG because the writers were still trying to figure out to write properly.

 

[Skipper]

You mean around the time when Georgiou stabbed Stamets?

Yep, that one! I would like to watch a making of!

 

[TheMadCloner]

Yep, that one! I would like to watch a making of!

The real question is how rare of a profession is interpretative dancing in the MU? Seems like it'd be as common as a MU psychiatrist/counselor or a MU babysitter.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Many - Janeway dies 17 times through Voyager's run, and Picard 9 during TNG and once in Picard.

Lorca (and everyone else on Discovery) dies 56 times in Magic Enough to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad. His and Airiam's later death puts them on top at 57.

 

[Alkurtz]

I must say, as a ST fan from day 1 in 1966, that this was one of the worst episodes ever (and that includes every iteration of the show or movies). It was so bad that, when seeing next week's preview, I don't even know if I want to watch it. Just to disabuse anyone of the idea that I am one of the "old" ST people dedicated to Roddenberry's vision, I love Discovery. ST needed a new direction and fresh ideas and, for the most part Disco has provided that. But this was embarrassingly bad. I was hoping that when she stepped through that portal she was would transported back 900 years providing an entry into her planned series. But honestly, if I never see her again, I would be happy. This added nothing to this season's arc and story and. like the original series mirror universe episode that gave Kirk and Spock an excuse for acting outside their characters, it was a total waste of time. I'm sure the cast had a ball with this episode but for me, it was just pathetically horrible.

 

[Tim Thomason]

To each their own. My presumption is that these two episodes are Georgiou's send-off, with a little nudge at the end to the final arc of the season which will be all about solving the Burn mystery.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Dammnit youtube you disappoint me I thought there'd be a compilation of all Janeway's deaths.

I am just hoping against all hope that part 2 isn't like most Trek part 2 episodes and drops the ball.

 

[jackoverfull]

Following on last week’s conversation, I was curious of checking the reviews on IMDB. The ones on last week’s episode are still almost exclusively on how bad the episode and/or discovery is or how bad the other reviewers are, this week’s seem much more generic. Curious to see what happens there after a future new episode featuring a bit more of adira, grey and other “woke” topics.

A good point from those reviews: prime Spock survives quite well for years in the Kelvin universe, either never getting the illness or finding a cure.

Of course the simplest explanation is that not everyone living in another time in another universe necessarily gets sick, there is only a good probability they will. After all they weren’t sure Georgiu were going to fall I’ll either, initially.

 

[Skipper]

The real question is how rare of a profession is interpretative dancing in the MU? Seems like it'd be as common as a MU psychiatrist/counselor or a MU babysitter.

Even the most barbaric empire on Earth had dancers and storytellers.

 

[TheMadCloner]

Even the most barbaric empire on Earth had dancers and storytellers.

I think the Terran Empire is easily more barbaric than the most historic barbaric empires on Earth.

 

[plynch]

Am trying to wrap my head around why I liked it.

Execution matters. I don't like fantasy and Who-ish OR Kafka-nonsensical stuff, BUT I liked how they did the ersatz Guardian. Please, I hope they never name it as such and just leave it mysterious.

It wasn't maudlin! That is what I dislike about DSC when I dislike it. "Audience: FEEL now" moments. YMMV and often does.

It had a Trek cheese/fun factor without being camp. IMHO. DS9's mirrors devolved into camp. "Hey, we're actors being silly now." I got that the runners of DSC intend this to be a relatively factual account of how the empire feels or felt.

When Kirk dies in GEN, he says, "It was . . . fun," which bothered me at the time. I wanted BIG WORDS. But y'know, it (TOS) was fun. As were Berman treks until ENT.
So this was fun.

The pomp and pageantry and many names of the emperor are by no means far-fetched. Many cultures have done, and still do pageant-plays. It seems to scratch a human itch, plus it indoctrinates the lumpen to support the regime. Basic stuff, not farfetched at all.

However, in short, I just liked this one. Who knows why? The lack of DSC things that irk me was nice though.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Am trying to wrap my head around why I liked it.

Execution matters. I don't like fantasy and Who-ish OR Kafka-nonsensical stuff, BUT I liked how they did the ersatz Guardian. Please, I hope they never name it as such and just leave it mysterious.

It wasn't maudlin! That is what I dislike about DSC when I dislike it. "Audience: FEEL now" moments. YMMV and often does.

It had a Trek cheese/fun factor without being camp. IMHO. DS9's mirrors devolved into camp. "Hey, we're actors being silly now." I got that the runners of DSC intend this to be a relatively factual account of how the empire feels or felt.

When Kirk dies in GEN, he says, "It was . . . fun," which bothered me at the time. I wanted BIG WORDS. But y'know, it (TOS) was fun. As were Berman treks until ENT.
So this was fun.

The pomp and pageantry and many names of the emperor are by no means far-fetched. Many cultures have done, and still do pageant-plays. It seems to scratch a human itch, plus it indoctrinates the lumpen to support the regime. Basic stuff, not farfetched at all.

However, in short, I just liked this one. Who knows why? The lack of DSC things that irk me was nice though.

I agree there was very little wrong with how the episode was written or acted.
Just the fact that it is in the MU which I hate and the weird mid season gear change the jump entails

 

[ananta]

Did not expect to be head first back into the MU. Personally I think this is may be a simulated reality (or a “mind trip”) as Trek has done so many times before... others have mentioned a possible riff on ‘It’s A Wonderful Life’. I loved how we see the changes in Georgiou by placing her back where she started. I am also loved that we could to see Killy finally and that Sonequa MG seemed to be channeling Nana Visitor’s Intendant for Mirror Burnham. The MU is basically full on Flash Gordon, right down to the costumes. But it was a nice change of pace.

That said, I want to get back to “our” universe and see the main plot advance quicker. Is there really no ‘big bad’ this season other than the lacklustre Emerald Chain?

I loved Carl by the way. That felt like classic Trek through and through. He reminded me very much of Q with a hint of Farscape’s ‘Einstein’ (“time...time...time”). Enjoyable though it is, I’m far more interested in that than the Mirror side of things so I hope this isn’t just a throwaway macguffin.

Finally, I will be seriously pissed if Jason isaacs doesn’t show up next week.

 

[plynch]

Yes, Carl reminded me of old Trek. Like Mr. Atoz at the end of TOS.
And yeah, I forgot -- this ep interrupts an arc, of which I care not a whit, since the Fed and cool Admiral also do not care much about. Taking my cue from the characters, one of the keys of writing. (And why directors do reaction shots.)

You have a magic jumping ship about to solve a big mystery and they're like . . . nah . . . yellow alert, we need to engage some space pirates!

So leaving that arc for an ep where I truly don't know what's going to happen next . . . well, that certainly didn't bug this guy. So many things that didn't bother me, ha ha! What is going on?

 

[Seven of Five]

That was fun - a solid 8.

I should have guessed we were going MU with the title of the episode, but it's probably best that it flew under my radar as a fun surprise. It's such a blast seeing the real MU Burnham and Killy.

It was an intriguing ensemble episode with Georgiou taking a central role, and I was so, so very happy to see her finally having some actual character development. I wish it had come sooner this season, alas. But seeing her struggling to resume her role as Emporer was delightful. She's been having too many warming hugs from Tilly.

I liked that we didn't see the DIS crew again as soon as Georgiou was in the MU. It helped to maintain a good momentum throughout the rest of the episode.

 

[bookworm8571]

I enjoyed this a lot, particularly the serving, costumes, background detail, etc. I don’t know if we’re seeing a real resetting of the Mirror Universe/Georgiou’s creation of a new timeline or just a head trip for Georgiou but it’s fun.

 

[Blue Squadron]

I get why a lot of folks will like this one but it just didn't do tat much for me.
I like Discovery, I really do, but this simply felt like more fanwank writing.

I actually don't mind the inclusion of the Guardian -- assuming this is indeed what we are seeing, in may ways that seemed like the least problematic part! I have no big concerns about a simulacrum human avatar for that entity (although the early- to mid-20th Century costume seemed a bit pointless: it would have little relevance to Burnham and likely even less to Georgiou!). They're still going out of their way to justify Tilly as XO.

One of the biggest problems is the inevitable small-universe syndrome that kicks in when they try to squeeze all the current characters (but only them) into specific situations like the MU.

Meh.

The whole thing is one big set-up / redemption arc by the writers of the Section 31 show to position mirror-universe Georgiou as someone who now understands and cares about defending the values of the prime-universe Federation -- but will inevitably go her own way about doing so. It looks like pretty much everything that happens is going to be in service to that objective. Guess what the outcome of that will be...

I liked Yeoh as prime Georgiou; I find the mirror Georgiou is still overly two-dimensional and was accepted far too easily by the Disco crew. Equally, I really, really don't give a rat's ass about Section 31, especially not as the primary focus of a spin-off series. S31 was just about acceptable as an occasional plot device but, like the MU and the Borg, they simply can't leave it alone.

The last few episodes have been watchable but there has been nothing about them that I found particularly clever or appealing. Oh well...

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Following on last week’s conversation, I was curious of checking the reviews on IMDB. The ones on last week’s episode are still almost exclusively on how bad the episode and/or discovery is or how bad the other reviewers are, this week’s seem much more generic. Curious to see what happens there after a future new episode featuring a bit more of adira, grey and other “woke” topics.

A good point from those reviews: prime Spock survives quite well for years in the Kelvin universe, either never getting the illness or finding a cure.

Of course the simplest explanation is that not everyone living in another time in another universe necessarily gets sick, there is only a good probability they will. After all they weren’t sure Georgiu were going to fall I’ll either, initially.

Maybe being stranded in the Kelvinverse is the reason for Prime Spock's death mentioned in Star Trek Beyond. Could be that it simply took longer for him to die.

And as someone pointed out on Reddit, it might also be the reason for Nero's madness (and possibly his crew's)