Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x07 - "Unification III"

[cooleddie74]

Considering that the series has gone out of its way never to mention the Romulans in the 23rd century, has TOS-style phasers, tricorders and communicators, doesn't have replicators but big TOS-esque food synthesizers with yellow doors and rows of blinking lights and mentions numerous historical datapoints that TOS itself brought up I'm content to let some things slide and enjoy the series as best I can.

 

[fireproof78]

Are you suggesting that someone was actually tearing their clothes off in response to Star Trek? Oh my.

It was probably more like this:

Complete with crazy eyes...

 

[Tim Thomason]

Right now, here in the 32nd century, they have to try really, really, really hard to make any canon violations. It's fun having them nonchalantly learn about the Romulans or the Trill without worrying about the implication on the universe and fan backlash.

The stuff about Tilly's Promotion or Burnham's Whispering (okay?) are just signs that the issues with Discovery are apparently not connected to the canonical issues from before.

 

[cooleddie74]

Sometimes things are just bad writing and not canon or continuity problems.

Most of the time in Trek bad episodes and films are bad because they're sloppily written and poorly executed stories. "Code of Honor(TNG)" isn't bad because it violates canon or continuity, in fact to my knowledge it adheres pretty well to the established Roddenberry universe as it existed in 1987. It's bad because it's stupid and it's racist.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Are you suggesting that someone was actually tearing their clothes off in response to Star Trek? Oh my.

I’m not sure what he was saying but it’s a question he posed that I guess I didn’t answer a while back. The issue I had with clothing is that the Picard series clothing looked like late 20th and 21st century clothing right down to the walmart shirts and shoes. Maybe he was mentioning that. I don’t know. But I don’t get what he was talking about for this show.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I’m not sure what he was saying but it’s a question he posed that I guess I didn’t answer a while back. The issue I had with clothing is that the Picard series clothing looked like late 20th and 21st century clothing right down to the walmart shirts and shoes. Maybe he was mentioning that. I don’t know. But I don’t get what he was talking about for this show.

Your confusion seems deliberate.

 

[fireproof78]

Sometimes things are just bad writing and not canon or continuity problems.

Most of the time in Trek bad episodes and films are bad because they're sloppily written and poorly executed stories. "Code of Honor(TNG)" isn't bad because it violates canon or continuity, in fact to my knowledge it adheres pretty well to the established Roddenberry universe as it existed in 1987. It's bad because it's stupid and it's racist.

Here's the thing-That's OK because GR did it. Even though GR largely expected Trek to change and adapt to the times there is such a pushback against any change that strikes me as antithetical than what was done with Trek in the past, placing importance on look of the make-up or technology than willing to engage with the characters.

It's tragic, to my mind, because it acts like Star Trek is immutable, like religious text.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Here's the thing-That's OK because GR did it. Even though GR largely expected Trek to change and adapt to the times there is such a pushback against any change that strikes me as antithetical than what was done with Trek in the past, placing importance on lo4ok of the make-up or technology than willing to engage with the characters.

It's tragic, to my mind, because it acts like Star Trek is immutable, like religious text.

I never got this, the shows creator wanted it to change with the times so why are some of the fans stuck in their ways?

 

[StarMan]

Right now, here in the 32nd century, they have to try really, really, really hard to make any canon violations.

Well, they could always have Worf randomly pop up like he did in Insurrection with little explanation. He's working at SF Command, or captaining a starship. We see him. We know it's him. But, just introduce him as a recurring character - no hint of why or how he's there in the 32nd century. It's just Worf.

I dunno. Fans would be spinning out wild theories as to what the hell is going on. But, don't ever explain it. Maybe sometimes he makes veiled references to his time aboard another starship long ago ...

 

[fireproof78]

I never got this, the shows creator wanted it to change with the times so why are some of the fans stuck in their ways?

That's what I keep trying to figure out; show creators are willing to try things out and do things differently. Hell, I remember an interview with Sam Witwer (voice of Darth Maul in Clone Wars and Rebels, among others) and he was asked what the original lines from an episode were. His comment was simple-it isn't a part of the broader work until it is put on screen, and even then it is subject to change down the road.

Star Trek has had changes before, and moving forward is an essential part of Star Trek, just like it would show with human beings. When it changes (not if but when) that change doesn't represent a disrespecting of the source materlal. The source material can't be disrespected because Trek's legacy is well established. Nothing Discovery or Picard or Lower Decks or any other production will change that legacy. It is an entertainment icon.

Discovery is just doing what TV shows do-try something new. TOS to TMP to TNG were all new. Change-it's a feature, not a bug.

 

[donners22]

Great show and a Great legacy. Discovery will never have that kind of legacy

That's an odd metric, given none of the other Trek series will either. TNG might have had more impact than the rest, but even then it's not nearly as iconic as TOS - there's a reason the Kelvin reboot and Disco (and now SNW, and possibly S31) were set in the TOS era.

I'd still take Disco over the Berman-era formulaic shows which drove the franchise into the ground.

I never got this, the shows creator wanted it to change with the times so why are some of the fans stuck in their ways?

Roddenberry's "vision" changed, but if anything it became more inflexible - the box was different, but it was smaller. The whole Berman era which followed was mostly kept within that box, and amounted to comfort food, a status quo, a predictable, feel-good formula. It's no wonder the likes of Berman and Piller hated writing within it. Sadly, it's what some fans have come to expect, and they now use it to define Trek in narrow parameters.

DS9 at least challenged the status quo, and copped plenty of flack for it at the time. Some people are coming around to it now, but it's still a niche within the fanbase rather than a show with wide appeal.

 

[fireproof78]

Sadly, it's what some fans have come to expect, and they now use it to define Trek in narrow parameters.

Indeed, yes, and that inflexibility is a huge barrier to enjoyment.

It's sad.

 

[Mr Awe]

On a scale of 1 to 10 of stupid things in Trek it's barely a 3.

I'd disagree. Although, I do get what you're saying.

But, really? Using that method of triangulation is very straightforward. The Federation hadn't thought of it? Or unable to get its own black boxes? Yeah, I get they were surviving but still. It just doesn't ring true. It's so unbelievable it takes me out of the story a bit.

And, it's more than just that. It's the entire approach of telling us about how the data were obtained rather than showing us. Two of three black boxes were offscreen. The boat load of sensor data was offscreen and from over a century ago! And, the emotional drama gets them the data.

I'd prefer a more active form of gathering the data where our crew really works for it travelling through the new era. Instead we get the whole emotional outburst thing that hands them data that's been sitting around for a century.

Well, to each their own. But, it did not work for me on multiple levels.

 

[cooleddie74]

More people are talking about DSC than they are ENT and probably ever have. It must be doing something right if it's getting more press and attention good or bad than the previous series.

DSC will have a legacy because it's reaching for a new audience on a never-before-attempted platform for the franchise. Whether it goes down as one of the best in Trek or down near the bottom it already has a voice and people care about it. You don't have to like it but saying it "won't have a legacy" is just ridiculous.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Well, they could always have Worf randomly pop up like he did in Insurrection with little explanation. He's working at SF Command, or captaining a starship. We see him. We know it's him. But, just introduce him as a recurring character - no hint of why or how he's there in the 32nd century. It's just Worf.

I dunno. Fans would be spinning out wild theories as to what the hell is going on. But, don't ever explain it. Maybe sometimes he makes veiled references to his time aboard another starship long ago ...

Well, when Worf randomly popped up in Star Trek VI without explanation, we just all accepted that that was his grandfather or something. If Worf randomly pops up without explanation, we'd probably assume he was a distant descendant.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

More people are talking about DSC than they are ENT and probably ever have. It must be doing something right if it's getting more press and attention good or bad than the previous series.

DSC will have a legacy because it's reaching for a new audience on a never-before-attempted platform for the franchise. Whether it goes down as one of the best in Trek or down near the bottom it already has a voice and people care about it. You don't have to like it but saying it "won't have a legacy" is just ridiculous.

And we all know in 10 - 15 years all the people currently hating on Discovery will be loving it because there is a nu-nutrek that ruins gene's vision. Kinda like how people are treating Enterprise nowadays.

 

[Discofan]

And we all know in 10 - 15 years all the people currently hating on Discovery will be loving it because there is a nu-nutrek that ruins gene's vision. Kinda like how people are treating Enterprise nowadays.

Ever heard what Brannon Braga says about ENT? You'd be surprised.

 

[Markonian]

I think it comes down to the fact she was adopted after experiencing a trauma. And then that stoicism of Vulcan was layered on top of that, rather than dealing with what had happened. So, when she encounters the Klingons at the Battle of Binary Stars it brought that all back to the surface. So, those emotions came rushing back to the surface and she couldn't handle it.

Thank you, that makes perfect sense.

USS Discovery needs official, certified counsellor staff.

 

[Jinn]

Ever heard what Brannon Braga says about ENT? You'd be surprised.

What did he say?

 

[Discofan]

What did he say?

For one thing, he said that some episodes were unwatchable pieces of...