Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x07 - "Unification III"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Nov 25, 2020.

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Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Worth the wait.

    19.5%
  2. 9

    19.9%
  3. 8

    22.8%
  4. 7

    14.1%
  5. 6

    8.3%
  6. 5

    7.1%
  7. 4

    2.9%
  8. 3

    0.8%
  9. 2

    1.7%
  10. 1 - They should have stopped at "II".

    2.9%
  1. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No one is taking away your ability to critique the episode. I think that there are several people here who did not like the episode who are nonetheless batting away some very aggressive critiques. Your own attention to crying in Discovery is also very problematic.
    You've tried to delegitimize crying in this last episode. Burnham cried three times. First, she learns the fate of her (foster) brother. Second, she is reunited with her mother. Third, she finds that her inner motives and feelings have been publicly exposed. Without a doubt, that's a lot of crying for <60 minutes. The episode's writer perhaps should have mixed things up, find some other ways of showing the actors revealing their emotions, especially if some dramatic moments will be more important than others.

    Each of these moments is regardless a legitimate reason to cry, whether in fiction or in real life. You, yourself, said that the crying in the episode was not "apt." That's BS. Indeed, I think it would be expected that these would all be moments in which characters might be expected to cry, and throughout Star Trek, crying has not been confined to mourning. In the episode that I referenced, Emissary, Sisko cries because he realizes he can't move on. There are plenty of other motivations for crying as well. It would have been better had these emotional moments had been spread out among several episodes--and I would agree it would have made these episode if that had been the case--but the crying is fully apt.
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'll own my bias as someone who cries at things others do not. But, man, I thought that giving people a hard time for crying was over in high school. :shrug:
     
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  3. TimeIsAPredator

    TimeIsAPredator Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I would say a lot of people would know Kirk as pop culture reference and only ever seen him in cartoon sketches and the like.
    The probably know Kirk as an American man in a yellow jumper (or red as in his Simpsons cameo) but couldn't tell you who played him in either timeline
     
  4. Reyman

    Reyman Commander Red Shirt

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    You assume everyone making any criticism of Discovery has had it out for the show from the beginning, and are taking criticism of this season too personally. Maybe you need to take off your fan boy blinkers for a second.

    I had plenty of love for season 1 and 2 despite it's flaws. Season 3 however has generally been a huge let down


    Fun to watch your Burnhamesque reaction to criticism though, so keep up your great posts. I'm sure a Nobel prize is waiting for you with all the time you're putting in into them.
     
  5. TimeIsAPredator

    TimeIsAPredator Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Firstly why is my critique of crying in Discovery "problematic".

    Second I didn't say crying in the episode was not "apt". I think the Spock part was emotional for us and Burnham, I don't mind the crying when she sees her mother but I wouldn't have her mother in an episode that was already very emotional due to her brother and return to Vulcan and my issue with the 3rd scene is it should not exist as it's a poor scene.

    I have said that over use of crying will lead to it losing its weight in the big moments and I would use it far less overall
     
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  6. TimeIsAPredator

    TimeIsAPredator Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I can only speak for myself here but I am not giving the characters a hard time for crying and am in no way calling them babies or anything like that.

    I am criticising how often writers are packing these moments in
     
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  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Fair point.

    I have no issue with it. As I said, that's personal bias because I was mocked heavily as a kid for crying by my friends. So, I'll own that.

    But, I also disagree with it being overused. I think that for the characters in the moments they are in it makes sense.
     
  8. TimeIsAPredator

    TimeIsAPredator Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No shame in crying.
    I cry quite a bit at movies and music and always have
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  9. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Funny. Since I actually criticized this episode earlier myself. Except my focus was on Tilly and Gabrielle.

    No thanks. Why would I want to give you anything you enjoy? Especially if it gives you more reason to come back.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
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  10. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    which is probably why it didn’t register at all with me in this episode: it has been done over and over in the previous ones that I kinda totally overlooked it here, where it made more sense.
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    As do I.

    Which is why it works for me here with Burnham. She's that type of soul I fully identify with.
     
  12. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What distinguishes Discovery from other Star Trek shows for me, is the personal nature of the story for our protagonists.
    Sure, they are dealing with galaxy wide crisis which concern everyone.
    But the crew of the ship is intimately involved with nearly everything that is happening.
    Some of them more than others.

    None of the other shows put their characters through personal tragedies like that on a permanent basis.

    Sometimes, sure, especially DS9, but they always get their breathing room.
    The majority of the stories has them deal with problems that concern them on a professional level as Starfleet officers first, not really affecting their personal lifes.
    The instances where that changes have already been listed. And then, too, they break down emotionally.
    But for Discovery, it‘s a near permanent state.
    That is bound to shake them up.
    The one thing that would and should happen in real life, is Starfleet collectively send them on indefinite leave and therapy by now.
    But that won’t make for a good tv show.
     
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  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They should have therapy at least.
     
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  14. Pubert

    Pubert Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    give me evidence that Shatners Kirk is not a household name and largely unknown. One of the greatest sci fi series in the last 60 years and you’re trying to claim it’s not well known to the general masses? Sorry but so funny. Post a link showing TOS is largely unknown.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
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  15. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    I'm far more sick of people crying about Burnham crying than I am about Burnham crying, and they cry far more than Burnham cries.
     
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  16. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not to be overly dramatic ... but this time I say, this whole conversation has me sobbing.

    Ah screw it ...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  17. TimeIsAPredator

    TimeIsAPredator Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    TNG season 7 :lol:
     
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  18. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Quoted from last week.
    I'm not doing this now. It's just shooting through someone else's hoops. Anyone who'd agree with me already does. Anyone who wouldn't already doesn't and won't accept anything I'd post because they already know my observations would be extremely different from theirs and not the answer they want.

    More importantly: 42 episodes (by the end of the season) means 42 hours for a post. That's what it would be. Not worth it. And starting a thread on it in response to YouTube Channels like Major Grin would only be giving them legitimacy they don't deserve.

    "He's an asshole. I don't care what Tannen says! I don't care what anybody else says either!"
     
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  19. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You very clearly suggested, in response to my post further up, that Burnham's crying was illegitimate when compared to Sisko. Considering crying for most is a hard-wired response, you made it not just about how much crying, but about comparing why particular characters are crying.
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    I've hated on Voyager for a couple of decades. Made every possible joke about the premise and the characters. Did a Voyager rewatch ( which was more of a first watch) over the last few months and it's nowhere near as bad as I recalled. There are some solid Trek episodes in their and over the course of seven season it good ratio might even be better than TNG's!
     
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