Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"

[ITDUDE]

Michael Burnham... daughter of two murdered civilian scientists that turn out to be secret agents working for Section 31. Her mother is presumed dead, but actually traveling through time living the same moments countless times in order to save all sentient life in the galaxy. Michael Burnham, adopted by famed diplomat Sarek and his wife Amanda. Adoptive sister to Spock, the first Vulcan in Starfleet. Loyal XO to famed Captain Phillipa Georgiou... who sees her as her own daughter who she inexplicably mutinies against on the brink of an intersteller war. Whose Mirror Universe counterpart also sees her as a daughter despite being a murderous, fascist megalomaniacal Emperor. Michael Burnham who killed the Klingon torchbearer and killed the Klingon unifier T'Kuvma to begin the Federation-Klingon War... who returns to Starfleet by the grace of a covert mirror universe counterpart to a respected Starfleet Captain... who was in love with her mirror universe counterpart. Michael Burnham whose love interest is a Klingon outcast who was surgically grafted into the body of a Starfleet POW who is in the midst of a major identity crisis... she's got 6 mothers, three fathers, a brother and four people in love with her. We're only done with season 2!

 

[Alan Roi]

You're applauding someone who is demonstrating they have poor grasp of both math and history? Okay...

 

[ITDUDE]

You're applauding someone who is demonstrating they have poor grasp of both math and history? Okay...

Didn't do the math on parents/parent figures, but seems close enough. Everything else in that review is factual information, is it not?

 

[saladdays]

You're applauding someone who is demonstrating they have poor grasp of both math and history? Okay...

It's almost like some people don't understand that fantastical things tend to happen to characters in film or TV as a whole.

 

[ITDUDE]

It's almost like some people don't understand that fantastical things tend to happen to characters in film or TV as a whole.

It's almost as if people forgot the pitch of Discovery that it was going to be from point of view of someone not in command, that anything and everything wasn't going to happen to them directly. They were there as a witness to give advice, but not be freaking in middle of every single event happening in the galaxy. Burnham might as well be the Captain, her rank absolutely plays no role in the show.

 

[Alan Roi]

Didn't do the math on parents/parent figures, but seems close enough. Everything else in that review is factual information, is it not?

Except the Klingon War had already been started by the Klingons before the Shenzou even got to the Binary Stars. And the math is terrible,the writer confuses mentor with mother and straight out fantasizes about how many lovers she has.

 

[Alan Roi]

It's almost as if people forgot the pitch of Discovery that it was going to be from point of view of someone not in command, that anything and everything wasn't going to happen to them directly. They were there as a witness to give advice, but not be freaking in middle of every single event happening in the galaxy. Burnham might as well be the Captain, her rank absolutely plays no role in the show.

And some people still do not grasp the concept of the term 'series lead'. To fill you in, series leads are not the 'witnesses who give advice'.

 

[oberth]

And some people still do not grasp the concept of the term 'series lead'. To fill you in, series leads are not 'witnesses who give advice'.

how about him? he died of lead poisoning serially

 

[saladdays]

It's almost as if people forgot the pitch of Discovery that it was going to be from point of view of someone not in command, that anything and everything wasn't going to happen to them directly. They were there as a witness to give advice, but not be freaking in middle of every single event happening in the galaxy. Burnham might as well be the Captain, her rank absolutely plays no role in the show.

Burnham has always been the lead. I'm sorry if her rank of captain made you feel that she wasn't going to have "captain-like" things happening to her. But would you even feel differently if she was a captain from the beginning of show?

 

[ITDUDE]

And some people still do not grasp the concept of the term 'series lead'. To fill you in, series leads are not the 'witnesses who give advice'.

Burnham has always been the lead. I'm sorry if her rank of captain made you feel that she wasn't going to have "captain-like" things happening to her. But would you even feel differently if she was a captain from the beginning of show?

Then what difference does it make what rank she is? Wasn't her being not in command meant that the show was somehow going to be different? Yes, the show was always going to be from her POV, but I figured that it would also mean she is not in the center of everything. Since she is in fact in the center of everything, then her not becoming Captain in Season 3 is going to be a joke. What does one have to do in Discovery universe to become the captain then anyway?

 

[oberth]

Then what difference does it make what rank she is? Wasn't her being not in command meant that the show was somehow going to be different? Yes, the show was always going to be from her POV, but I figured that it would also mean she is not in the center of everything. Since she is in fact in the center of everything, then her not becoming Captain in Season 3 is going to be a joke. What does one have to do in Discovery universe to become the captain then anyway?

it is different, how often did you hear kirk or picard sir somebody

 

[Noname Given]

I just want to point out that it's NOT the angry OLD Trekkers that are doing most of the complaining.
It's the YOUNGER TNG onward, somewhat Newcomers, to Trek that are mostly doing all the pizzin' & moanin'.

I'M One of the Original OLD Timer's around here and I loved the first two seasons of DISCOVERY.

Now get off my spaceship!

Ditto - saw TOS first run on NBC (First episode I saw was TOS S3 - "Elaan of Troyius" in 1969 - I was 6). I have some issues with ST: D, sure, but I've enjoyed it much more than anything from Berman and Braga in the 24th century (TNG, VOY and even DS9 <--- and yes, I know only Berman was involved, but DS9 became more of a soap opera than even the most soap opera parts of ST: D...and that started to get old for me. YMMV. Liked ENT quite a bit - but that was after Manny Coto took over in the writing room.)

 

[Alan Roi]

Then what difference does it make what rank she is? Wasn't her being not in command meant that the show was somehow going to be different? Yes, the show was always going to be from her POV, but I figured that it would also mean she is not in the center of everything. Since she is in fact in the center of everything, then her not becoming Captain in Season 3 is going to be a joke. What does one have to do in Discovery universe to become the captain then anyway?

What doe one have to do in Starfleet to become the Captain of a ship? Be assigned the highest rank and be assigned the commanding officer or have to assume Captaincy following chain of command in the field. That's how its always been in Star Trek.

 

[saladdays]

Then what difference does it make what rank she is? Wasn't her being not in command meant that the show was somehow going to be different? Yes, the show was always going to be from her POV, but I figured that it would also mean she is not in the center of everything. Since she is in fact in the center of everything, then her not becoming Captain in Season 3 is going to be a joke. What does one have to do in Discovery universe to become the captain then anyway?

A series lead who isn't the captain (or a commanding officer) is different in Star Trek, but I'm not sure why it makes a lot of difference, or why we should have been led to believe that she wasn't going to play an important role in the events that occur in the show. If you just assumed that she wouldn't have such a role simply because she wasn't the captain, then that's kind of on you, isn't it?

 

[zar]

Michael Burnham... daughter of two murdered civilian scientists that turn out to be secret agents working for Section 31. Her mother is presumed dead, but actually traveling through time living the same moments countless times in order to save all sentient life in the galaxy. Michael Burnham, adopted by famed diplomat Sarek and his wife Amanda. Adoptive sister to Spock, the first Vulcan in Starfleet. Loyal XO to famed Captain Phillipa Georgiou... who sees her as her own daughter who she inexplicably mutinies against on the brink of an intersteller war. Whose Mirror Universe counterpart also sees her as a daughter despite being a murderous, fascist megalomaniacal Emperor. Michael Burnham who killed the Klingon torchbearer and killed the Klingon unifier T'Kuvma to begin the Federation-Klingon War... who returns to Starfleet by the grace of a covert mirror universe counterpart to a respected Starfleet Captain... who was in love with her mirror universe counterpart. Michael Burnham whose love interest is a Klingon outcast who was surgically grafted into the body of a Starfleet POW who is in the midst of a major identity crisis... she's got 6 mothers, three fathers, a brother and four people in love with her. We're only done with season 2!

Spock wasn't the first Vulcan in Starfleet, but other than that, mostly accurate.

I hear they're also working on a show about a descendant of the first Martian colonists, the best friend of a being who claims to be omnipotent and became obsessed with him. Life-long friend to the only sentient android in Starfleet, who then sacrificed their life for him. Commander of said android's dead girlfriend whose alternate-timeline counterpart traveled to the past to give birth to a Romulan who attempted to invade Vulcan before being thwarted by famed Ambassador Spock. Whom both Spock and Sarek chose to mind-meld with instead of each other. Chosen as a representation of all of humanity and love interest to the genocidal Borg Queen. Who was inadvertently responsible for the deaths of over 10 thousand, but given command of not one but two consecutive flagships to the entire Federation, personally represented the Federation in 27 separate first-contact incidents, and was hand-picked by the leader of the entire Klingon Empire to officiate his successor.

And the show hasn't even started yet.

Let's see what's out there.

 

[oberth]

Spock wasn't the first Vulcan in Starfleet, but other than that, mostly accurate.

I hear they're also working on a show about a descendant of the first Martian colonists, the best friend of a being who claims to be omnipotent and became obsessed with him. Life-long friend to the only sentient android in Starfleet, who then sacrificed their life for him. Commander of said android's dead girlfriend whose alternate-timeline counterpart traveled to the past to give birth to a Romulan who attempted to invade Vulcan before being thwarted by famed Ambassador Spock. Whom both Spock and Sarek chose to mind-meld with instead of each other. Chosen as a representation of all of humanity and love interest to the genocidal Borg Queen. Who was inadvertently responsible for the deaths of over 10 thousand, but given command of not one but two consecutive flagships to the entire Federation, personally represented the Federation in 27 separate first-contact incidents, and was hand-picked by the leader of the entire Klingon Empire to officiate his successor.

And the show hasn't even started yet.

Let's see what's out there.

isn't that hero also a quintessentially british frenchman?


... which in itself is most likely harder to acchieve than all that other stuff

 

[ITDUDE]

Spock wasn't the first Vulcan in Starfleet, but other than that, mostly accurate.

I hear they're also working on a show about a descendant of the first Martian colonists, the best friend of a being who claims to be omnipotent and became obsessed with him. Life-long friend to the only sentient android in Starfleet, who then sacrificed their life for him. Commander of said android's dead girlfriend whose alternate-timeline counterpart traveled to the past to give birth to a Romulan who attempted to invade Vulcan before being thwarted by famed Ambassador Spock. Whom both Spock and Sarek chose to mind-meld with instead of each other. Chosen as a representation of all of humanity and love interest to the genocidal Borg Queen. Who was inadvertently responsible for the deaths of over 10 thousand, but given command of not one but two consecutive flagships to the entire Federation, personally represented the Federation in 27 separate first-contact incidents, and was hand-picked by the leader of the entire Klingon Empire to officiate his successor.

And the show hasn't even started yet.

Let's see what's out there.

I see what you did there

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Then what difference does it make what rank she is? Wasn't her being not in command meant that the show was somehow going to be different? Yes, the show was always going to be from her POV, but I figured that it would also mean she is not in the center of everything. Since she is in fact in the center of everything, then her not becoming Captain in Season 3 is going to be a joke. What does one have to do in Discovery universe to become the captain then anyway?

When we were told before the show even premiered that the main character was not the captain, I:
(a) was OK with that,
and
(b) Didn't feel that statement at the time meant that the main character would soon become captain.

I suppose that main character mentioned back then could eventually become captain, but considering that they wanted to break from the "captain as the main character" thing, it was likely if that main character DID become captain, it would be at the end of the show's run, and not something they planned for the middle of the run.

Planning for that in the middle of the run seems to go against their original desire to break from the main-character-captain thing. However, things change, and maybe they will make Burnham captain. Personally, I'd rather see Saru as Captain and Burnham as his Number One.

 

[Discofan]

You are correct, there were two crewmembers sucked into space, on first glance you could be fooled into thinking it was Nhan and Georgiou, but it was two canon fodder red shirt types.
The stars were visible for a split second after they were jettisoned, then a containment field covered the gaping hole.
Or at least that's how I saw it.

I thought it was them too and only realized it wasn't when the fight continued.

 

[Nyotarules]

The way Spock's recommendation was worded, only those Starfleet officers who know about the events of the last several episodes should be forbidden from ever speaking about USS Discovery, its crew, and the spore drive. That doesn't mean that anybody who ever heard of Discovery or knew its crewmembers are forbidden to talk about them.

One thing to keep in mind is that Spock's recommendations here are not gospel. He is only a lowly Lieutenant and not a policymaker. We shouldn't assume that Starfleet is going to follow his word to the letter.

Kor

I bet Sarek and Amanda pretended Michael never existed, that's one advice Sarek probably followed