Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x05 - "Saints of Imperfection"

[cooleddie74]

Delay the inevitable for 90 years which in the Star trek universe for some species is not very long.

Eh. Beats genocide. Unless there's a big promotion and company warp yacht attached to said genocide.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Interesting you should mention her because I recently read her tweets on Discovery.

My understanding is that she mostly enjoyed season 1, but stopped two episodes into season 2 because she couldn't stand the course correction back to more old-fashioned Trek.

understandable. thankfully episode 3 was better

 

[XCV330]

Interesting you should mention her because I recently read her tweets on Discovery.

My understanding is that she mostly enjoyed season 1, but stopped two episodes into season 2 because she couldn't stand the course correction back to more old-fashioned Trek.

"No one is perfect" -Spock

 

[BillJ]

"It is MUTINY!"

So, you like over the top scenery chewing?

Shatner was the master. Always great to watch a master work.

 

[Campe]

Shatner was the master. Always great to watch a master work.

The thing about it is: Shatner really can be a great actor. There are some wonderful nuanced moments where he's not over the top. Nick Meyer got some amazing stuff out of him in TWOK.

Then there was "The Enemy Within" and "Turnabout Intruder."

"IIIII'M CAPTAIN KIRK!"

 

[BillJ]

Then there was "The Enemy Within" and "Turnabout Intruder."

I think he was very good in both of these. The one thing I notice about Shatner's work, is that he is a professional and gives his all, no matter how insane the material is.

 

[Disco!Disco!]

understandable. thankfully episode 3 was better

I understand too. When "New Earth" was released, I worried that viewers who enjoyed season 1 would be put off as it's a bit of a throwback.

She said she might get back to it later. Maybe she'll find more episodes to her liking? "New Earth" didn't set the tone for the following episodes.

Anyway, she said her tastes are more Westworld, and she is hooked on that new Kingdom show.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

That was the part that got my eyes rolling, because it's clear no one in the friggin writer's room had any idea how the human brain actually works.

Basically, a lot of people falsely believe in Cartesian dualism - the idea that the mind and the body are separate things. Under this loose analogy, the brain works as "hardware" while the mind is the "software." The body is "matter" and the mind is "energy."

But the fact of the matter is, there is no such division. There are of course purely energetic elements of the human mind, like electricity and magnetic fields. But there are also elements of the mind which are only energy in the chemical sense (meaning, unless you want to want to count borrowing an electron here and there, they're bound up in matter). Much of the mind is just the pure physical structure of the brain. Destroy the structure, and that element of the mind is gone. Fundamentally, "we" are not energy. We are organization, which falls apart via entropy.

There are ways you could use an understanding of how the mind works to make resurrection happen. For example, the whole Star Trek "transporter clone" thing is correct, given a materialist understanding of the universe. Perfectly copy someone's body - including the brain - and you have continuity of consciousness - it's literally the same person. Similarly, in principle a virtual copy of your brain down to the molecular level (most scientists don't think quantum phenomena really impact consciousness) would be enough to make a self-aware copy of you in a machine. And in an infinite universe, the chance of "you" somehow inexplicably popping into existence somewhere else after you die is...well...certain eventually.

But just talking about the mind as "energy" is new-age woo. That's the religious concept of a soul, not how the human mind actually works.

I'll grant that Trek has already implied that Vulcan minds do work like this with all the Katra bullshit, but this is at least semi-believable, because maybe Vulcan brain structure is very different from our own, with their minds operating as "software" rather than the mixed software/hardware of our own minds.

Relax your sphincter, man

 

[F. King Daniel]

Just rewatched this. Really loved it. Tilly is the most lovable character in Trek.

It was really nice to see her have a little cry at the end with Burnham after all the shit she's been through the past few days. Discovery needs a counsellor for these poor, traumatised crew people (Ash could definitely use some help, too)

 

[Alan Roi]

I think he was very good in both of these. The one thing I notice about Shatner's work, is that he is a professional and gives his all, no matter how insane the material is.

When it comes to Star Trek you can never have to many actors trained for the stage.

 

[Campe]

I think he was very good in both of these. The one thing I notice about Shatner's work, is that he is a professional and gives his all, no matter how insane the material is.

I've done a lot of theater in my day. I've played lead characters, chorus roles in musicals and a ton of supporting characters. Trust me when I say: There is one thing in giving your all. There is another in being so blatantly over the top that you become known for that. At different times in the over twenty years I appeared onstage, I was known for both.

I appreciate Shatner's committal to a character. Whether or not it's good acting or not? There are moments he definitely is there. Others? Like the ones I mentioned?

We can agree to disagree.

 

[Vger23]

Jammer's review:
https://www.jammersreviews.com/st-dsc/s2/saints-of-imperfection.php

I find the "Jammer's Review" website to be extremely level-headed, thoughtful, balanced and credible. Oftentimes, way more so than other review outlets (regardless of their level of love or disdain). He's been pretty strong on S2 thus far, so that's a nice indication in my mind.

 

[Vger23]

even Saavik cursed.

It was already established that Stafleet officers cursed (COTEOF, TMP, TWOK). Kirk's colorful metaphor line was a throwaway that had did not jive with previous instances or later instances. They cuss all the time, they just aren't as good at it.

Kirk: let's get the hell out of here
Kirk: Damnit Spock.
Kirk: I ought to knock you on your god-damned ass.
Kirk: You Klingon bastards you murdered my son
David Marcus: You son of a bitch.
Saavik: Damn.
Spock: Go to hell.
Spock: Damn you sir!
McCoy: Green blooded son of a bitch
Scott: That Klingon bitch killed her father.
Uhura: I'm going to xxxx your head off and !@#@ down your throat while you're head is still watching if you don't get in that #$#$#!@ closet you ^$@@king little privileged puke. (deleted scene, ST III TSFS)

Absolutely. I always figured it was pretty clear that Spock's confusion was based on his recent Katra-reintegration...and not because cursing was unknown to Federation citizens.

 

[Alan Roi]

I find the "Jammer's Review" website to be extremely level-headed, thoughtful, balanced and credible. Oftentimes, way more so than other review outlets (regardless of their level of love or disdain). He's been pretty strong on S2 thus far, so that's a nice indication in my mind.

Yeah, but like IGN the comment section is filled with haters so you have to scroll down past all the irrational Discovery hate in the comment section to get any sort of coherent rational reaction below the review line. Eventually, however, you will find reactions by people who actually paid attention to the ep instead of apparently spending the hour screaming at their screens, so that does put it a step above IGN's commentors.

 

[Vger23]

Yeah, but like IGN the comment section is dominated by haters so you have to scroll down past all the irrational Discovery hate in the comment section to get any sort of coherent rational reaction below the review line.

Oh I agree, the comments, like many other places, are often a shameful, unmoderated mess.

I look at TrekBBS as the best place to see "viewer reaction" and JammersReviews.com as the best place to read objective reviews!

 

[Cyrus]

I find the "Jammer's Review" website to be extremely level-headed, thoughtful, balanced and credible. Oftentimes, way more so than other review outlets (regardless of their level of love or disdain). He's been pretty strong on S2 thus far, so that's a nice indication in my mind.

The only other reviews I read are KRAD's:
https://decandido.wordpress.com/2018/01/08/guide-to-my-reviews-of-star-trek-discovery/

 

[Ovation]

she couldn't stand the course correction back to more old-fashioned Trek.

I haven’t abandoned the show but I have similar, if less pronounced, concerns.

 

[DEWLine]

Question I'd like to ask about the Emperor Emeritus: what has it been like to learn to live in a universe where she hasn't had to worry about everyone and their pet sehlat or targ trying to stab her in the front, back or anywhere else (excepting those people she specifically makes trouble for)?

How disorienting has it been for her? Does her "you don't get to complain" scolding of Burnham suggest the depth of it?

 

[Longinus]

I haven’t abandoned the show but I have similar, if less pronounced, concerns.

Well, I don't think you need to worry, this episode at least was pure first season quality...

 

[Alan Roi]

Question I'd like to ask about the Emperor Emeritus: what has it been like to learn to live in a universe where she hasn't had to worry about everyone and their pet sehlat or targ trying to stab her in the front, back or anywhere else (excepting those people she specifically makes trouble for)?

How disorienting has it been for her? Does her "you don't get to complain" scolding of Burnham suggest the depth of it?

She probably finds it a bit on the boring side.