Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x05 - "Saints of Imperfection"

[eschaton]

Whilst I think the 'science' in this episode was pure nonsense magic, and evoking conservation of energy there was particularly painful, I don't think that working of the mind is really understood on the level you imply at all. Sure, we pretty well understand how brain works in mechanical sense, how certain stimuli create certain reactions. However, no one really has a fucking clue why we actually subjectively experience any of this. As far as physics go, we all should be just robots, philosophical zombies, yet we are not, we have qualia, phenomenal experiences. No one has even remotely satisfactory answer for this Hard Problem of Consciousness, as Chalmers called it. I'm of course not implying existence of souls here, but merely pointing out that this is a subject which directly involves one of the biggest, if not the biggest, unanswered questions we have.

Even given all of that - the possibility that the "thisness" of experience might be something which can't be quantified yet - it's well established that most of the things that we bind up closely in our sense of self - are part and parcel to the brain. Memories are stored there, for example, and our personality being what it is, instead of something different, is because of the particular physical structure of the brain that we have.

Thus even if I did have some sort of ineffable "experiential point" which could be sucked out of me and put somewhere else, if this continuity of consciousness didn't come along with my memories and my personality, no one else would define it as being "me." They'd say the p-zombie I left behind was me instead.

 

[Noname Given]

True. This is why, as I said, it would have helped them to have a science adviser to run the scripts by first. I mean, it's still nonsense, but then it would be nonsense which at least doesn't create new and additional conflicts with our 21st understanding of science.

You continually seem to think the 'Star Trek' science across previous shows makes more sense then what they've done in ST: D. You're laughably wrong in that the majority of Star Trek 'science makes zero sense. (especially TNG's numerous 'we can configure ouyr Deflector Dish to generate >particle of the week< and fix >Anomaly of the week'

ST: D has science a advisor, and she's probably rolling her eyes the same way Andre Bromanis did when he saw the various TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT scripts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mika_McKinnon

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

It’s fictional science

Ira Graves did it in TNG, albeit digitally

Wait, wait, wait. Science Fiction is fictional science? WhenTF did this start?

Culber's messy beard and hair was grown in the network, so it had to stay there, but he did enter the network with a nicely trimmed beard, so I wonder why that wasn't back.

 

[cultcross]

That was like the only valid reason to complain about 'fuck' on Discovery. ST:IV clearly established that 23rd century people don't curse like we do today, so 'fuck' was a continuity error!

I'd say only that it established they don't swear as often or as vociferously as we do - they were clearly familiar with the concept and the words. But in 1986 San Fransisco, they were every other word. Like how in the 1600s they said verily, forsooth all the time. I presume.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Fuck me sideways, are we really back to the fucking cursing debate of season 1?

 

[Longinus]

Fuck me sideways, are we really back to the fucking cursing debate of season 1?

I'm sorry, forget I said anything about it; it was mostly meant as a joke.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I'm sorry, forget I said anything about it; it was mostly meant as a joke.

I think @Hythlodeus was having us off too

 

[DaveyNY]

I'm sorry, forget I said anything about it; it was mostly meant as a joke.

Bet you feel like a Double Dumb Ass now.

 

[Greg Cox]

It’s fictional science

Ira Graves did it in TNG, albeit digitally

There was also the mind-swap in "Turnabout Intruder," although I feel slightly dirty citing that as a precedent because it's such a terrible episode.

 

[Nyotarules]

If push comes to shove blockade the Bajoran Wormhole and prevent any further Changelings from coming through. Given enough time and with the proper communication with the Prophets in the Wormhole the Federation might have been able to shut down the gateway from the Gamma Quadrant. The Alpha Quadrant would have lost the only stable wormhole known to exist but given that the bloodiest war in human as well as Alpha Quadrant history had resulted from travel to and from the Gamma Quadrant it might have been a small price to pay to keep the Dominion from ever attempting another war of conquest against the Alpha Quadrant.

Delay the inevitable for 90 years which in the Star trek universe for some species is not very long.

 

[Alan Roi]

Whilst I think the 'science' in this episode was pure nonsense magic, and evoking conservation of energy there was particularly painful, I don't think that working of the mind is really understood on the level you imply at all. Sure, we pretty well understand how brain works in mechanical sense, how certain stimuli create certain reactions. However, no one really has a fucking clue why we actually subjectively experience any of this. As far as physics go, we all should be just robots, philosophical zombies, yet we are not, we have qualia, phenomenal experiences. No one has even remotely satisfactory answer for this Hard Problem of Consciousness, as Chalmers called it. I'm of course not implying existence of souls here, but merely pointing out that this is a subject which directly involves one of the biggest, if not the biggest, unanswered questions we have.

Honestly, we don't know the actual mechanism of how Culbert was resurrected. We just have a hypothesis of what happened from Stamets who appears to be guessing based on what he remembers happened. Now, Stamets himself is a hybrid being who has a mix of Human and Super Tardigrade DNA, and the Super Tardigrades are able to enter and exit the mycellian network at will. For all we know, the tear had nothing to do with this and Stamets can actually his powers as a sem-Tardigrated to have priorly mapped out Culbert on a atomic level before to his death and send that to the network as opposed to the what the 'in love' Stamets thought was what happened. If Spore May is able to create an organic pattern buffer of Tilly and itself, there's every reason to suggest that other creatures from the network can do the same.

 

[BillJ]

There was also the mind-swap in "Turnabout Intruder," although I feel slightly dirty citing that as a precedent because it's such a terrible episode.

I like "Turnabout Intruder".

 

[Joanna McCoy-Kirk]

I like "Turnabout Intruder".

I like it a little bit. It does have historical importance in Trek as the final episode of TOS, so it's OK to watch it from time to time.

 

[BillJ]

I like it a little bit. It does have historical importance in Trek as the final episode of TOS, so it's OK to watch it from time to time.

I love Shatner's performance as Janice Lester. Great stuff.

 

[Campe]

I love Shatner's performance as Janice Lester. Great stuff.

"It is MUTINY!"

So, you like over the top scenery chewing?

 

[IMC Headquarters]

I've just remembered that years ago Calvin woke his mother at two in the morning to ask her if people grow from spores. She didn't answer him, but Hobbes claimed that it was true...

 

[Alan Roi]

"It is MUTINY!"

So, you like over the top scenery chewing?

There are Star Trek fans who don't?

 

[IMC Headquarters]

"It is MUTINY!"

So, you like over the top scenery chewing?

They needed Shatner's help to dismantle the sets. The money had run out. End of series.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

"It is MUTINY!"

So, you like over the top scenery chewing?

Well, Janice WAS all four wheels off the road, so in this case it's called for.

 

[Disco!Disco!]

For that kind of intricate metaphysical world building you want, need really, N.K. Jemisin. But i also don't think it's necessary for trek.

Interesting you should mention her because I recently read her tweets on Discovery.

My understanding is that she mostly enjoyed season 1, but stopped two episodes into season 2 because she couldn't stand the course correction back to more old-fashioned Trek.