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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x05 - "Saints of Imperfection"

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^Culber’s katra is still there, so he has his memories
Right. Stamets said that he transferred Hugh's "energy" into the network. What Stamets calls "energy", the Vulcans would call "Katra". And, of course, Stamets was only able to do it because of the unique connection that he had to the network at that moment. So, it's not as if you could start throwing corpses into the network and expect resurrections, as without the connection to the network that Stamets had, the best one could hope for is a shell without consciousness or dare I say, "soul".
 
Right. Stamets said that he transferred Hugh's "energy" into the network. What Stamets calls "energy", the Vulcans would call "Katra". And, of course, Stamets was only able to do it because of the unique connection that he had to the network at that moment. So, it's not as if you could start throwing corpses into the network and expect resurrections, as without the connection to the network that Stamets had, the best one could hope for is a shell without consciousness or dare I say, "soul".

We better start throwing some corpses to make sure, though.
 
^Culber’s katra is still there, so he has his memories

A katra is the recording of a personality through a specific method using a specific medium.

Vinyl, cassette tape, and mp3 recordings of a Hey Jude studio recording are different in different ways to the studio masters, and the original performance.

Because no one in Federation is aware of the particulars of this "science" they don't know if Culber is not just a poor substandard imitation, but he could be a Manchurian candidate or carrying a disease which will murder everyone on the ship.
 
Recorded games all day. Hungry. And so, I'm going to re-watch "Saints of Imperfection" in all its wacky glory while I cook some pizza that I stupidly should've cooked last night and put in the fridge for right now. Eh, whatever.

Here's to crazy spores and the return of Culber!
 
Still confused about the mycelial network and how Culber was saved after his death - Stamets technobabbles about „I brought him here. Thermodynamics. Energy can not be created or destroyed.“
Will Culber struggle with the fact that he had been recreated by Stamets memories or was it really a complete upload into the mycelial network?
 
What I think happened:

Stamets was the lightning rod. He acted as the conduit to the Mycelial Network as the navigator plugged into it. Remember he got lost in it himself for a while after the 133 jumps.

Culber's energy/katra/soul was transferred into the MN because of his connection to Paul. The JahSepp found him there and constructed a mycelial body for him, but it felt like he was being attacked, it burned and he fled from them and protected himself with the bark armor which was toxic to them. Becoming a 'monster' to them.

He couldn't be transferred back to the normal plane due to having a mycelial body. They needed some human (presumably Hughs') DNA in the real world to be added to the bio transporter May left behind in order to create a stable human body for Culber's energy/soul/katra to return to. Hugh's memories and essence of who he was weren't recreated by Paul, they were moved intact from one plane of existence and back again. What he needed was a new shell, since his old body was gone or unavailable. The bio transporter basically rematerialized Hugh's body using the new pattern buffer helped by the added DNA as a template.

Matter to energy to matter. Exactly what the transporters allegedly do all the time on Trek.

Hugh and Ash actually have a lot in common when you think about it.
 
tamets technobabbles about „I brought him here. Thermodynamics. Energy can not be created or destroyed
This relies on the old Star Trek trope that each person or consciousness represents an energy/katra/soul which is separate from the body. Of course, it makes no sense given that all the people who died not connected to the spore network must have had that 'energy' go somewhere, but hey, it's a handwave and we all know it. Culber's back, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
 
How long was Culber stuck there? Discovery jumped forward a year returning from the MU, then went back to earth after the war ended.

Did it say anywhere how much time past in the last episode of season 1?
 
My favorite part of the episode was how Culber came back from the network perfectly groomed! :guffaw:
maybe it was a 'sorry for thinking you're a monster' gesture of the network? Also, the pod he came back in had the ability to transport people into a intergalactic mushroom farm. Is it too much to think it would have a change room? :D
 
...Because no one in Federation is aware of the particulars of this "science" they don't know if Culber is not just a poor substandard imitation, but he could be a Manchurian candidate or carrying a disease which will murder everyone on the ship.
Section 31 called. They want to offer you a job.
 
This relies on the old Star Trek trope that each person or consciousness represents an energy/katra/soul which is separate from the body. Of course, it makes no sense given that all the people who died not connected to the spore network must have had that 'energy' go somewhere, but hey, it's a handwave and we all know it. Culber's back, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

That was the part that got my eyes rolling, because it's clear no one in the friggin writer's room had any idea how the human brain actually works.

Basically, a lot of people falsely believe in Cartesian dualism - the idea that the mind and the body are separate things. Under this loose analogy, the brain works as "hardware" while the mind is the "software." The body is "matter" and the mind is "energy."

But the fact of the matter is, there is no such division. There are of course purely energetic elements of the human mind, like electricity and magnetic fields. But there are also elements of the mind which are only energy in the chemical sense (meaning, unless you want to want to count borrowing an electron here and there, they're bound up in matter). Much of the mind is just the pure physical structure of the brain. Destroy the structure, and that element of the mind is gone. Fundamentally, "we" are not energy. We are organization, which falls apart via entropy.

There are ways you could use an understanding of how the mind works to make resurrection happen. For example, the whole Star Trek "transporter clone" thing is correct, given a materialist understanding of the universe. Perfectly copy someone's body - including the brain - and you have continuity of consciousness - it's literally the same person. Similarly, in principle a virtual copy of your brain down to the molecular level (most scientists don't think quantum phenomena really impact consciousness) would be enough to make a self-aware copy of you in a machine. And in an infinite universe, the chance of "you" somehow inexplicably popping into existence somewhere else after you die is...well...certain eventually.

But just talking about the mind as "energy" is new-age woo. That's the religious concept of a soul, not how the human mind actually works.

I'll grant that Trek has already implied that Vulcan minds do work like this with all the Katra bullshit, but this is at least semi-believable, because maybe Vulcan brain structure is very different from our own, with their minds operating as "software" rather than the mixed software/hardware of our own minds.
 
I'll grant that Trek has already implied that Vulcan minds do work like this with all the Katra bullshit, but this is at least semi-believable, because maybe Vulcan brain structure is very different from our own, with their minds operating as "software" rather than the mixed software/hardware of our own minds
It's not just Vulcans - lots of episode plots rely on the same dualism. It's fairly well established that this is the Trek universe's philosophy. It's nonsense, but we are used to it now. The part that was Discovery-specific nonsense was the Conservation of Energy name drop, because that triggers a "that's not how the force works!" meme in my head.
 
It's not just Vulcans - lots of episode plots rely on the same dualism. It's fairly well established that this is the Trek universe's philosophy. It's nonsense, but we are used to it now. The part that was Discovery-specific nonsense was the Conservation of Energy name drop, because that triggers a "that's not how the force works!" meme in my head.

True. This is why, as I said, it would have helped them to have a science adviser to run the scripts by first. I mean, it's still nonsense, but then it would be nonsense which at least doesn't create new and additional conflicts with our 21st understanding of science.
 
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